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  1. #40
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    Jun 2001
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    Michigan
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    12,077
    you guys are nutso over this and I just can't see this being that big of a deal.

    This doesn't play out like that JP. Never does. Your smarter than that.

    And you are too Robo. Your gong half cocked over something that is not that big in the real way things go down.
    People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    24,998
    I think you are focusing on the job that we do where we are running solo most of the time. In most "normal" workplaces there is a lot more interaction and socialization, opening the door for what we are talking about.

    You have your reasons for choosing the union. As you stated, your employers also chose to be a union shop.

    I agree that if the majority of employees want a union, then they should have it, but I also believe that this act allows too much room for coersion.

    what is wrong with a secret ballot? It's fair.

    If a system is not broken, why are we trying to fix it?

  3. #42
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
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    14,046
    Quote Originally Posted by Dowadudda View Post
    you guys are nutso over this and I just can't see this being that big of a deal.

    This doesn't play out like that JP. Never does. Your smarter than that.

    And you are too Robo. Your gong half cocked over something that is not that big in the real way things go down.
    I have been in a Union, and it was NOT a good thing. The union put themselves and the company out of business.

    Unions have out lived there usefulness.

    What this is all about is the UAW trying to get into The 'foreign' auto plants.

    [B]The UAW has two choices[/B], either lower there wage demands so that the Big 3 can survive

    OR

    they can pull this crap and FORCE THERE WAY into the foreign NON-UNION shops and make them increase there pay scale to match or exceed the B3

    either way, Unions WILL end up destroying this country. We will no longer be able to compete in the Global market place.

    Hey, if your pro union, thats fine. Just remember, the business has the option of WALKING AWAY. Close the door and say Addios.

    Also remember this. American companies will vote with there feet, they will move more and more manufacturing OFF SHORE if labor cost get to high.
    "Arguing with liberals...it's like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it's victorious." -- Anonymous

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    S.C.
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    931
    O.K., Ithink I am up to par now. Secret ballot is the way to go. The only reason some would want it any other way is o be corrupt!

  5. #44
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    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    This act will allow too much coersion and pressure to be brought to bear on "swing votes"

    Imagine, a 6'9" tall guy named Bruno leaning on your shoulder and gently whispering, "You REALLY should sign this card, buddy"
    That'll work on some. Others may may just go for the new gold watch.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    68,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Dowadudda View Post
    you guys are nutso over this and I just can't see this being that big of a deal.

    This doesn't play out like that JP. Never does. Your smarter than that.

    And you are too Robo. Your gong half cocked over something that is not that big in the real way things go down.
    If it's no big deal, why are unions pumping millions of dollars of union workers dues into getting it passed and trying to buy a Senate seat?

    Maybe it is you that is "not" so smart as we'd like to think you are.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by absoair View Post
    O.K., Ithink I am up to par now. Secret ballot is the way to go. The only reason some would want it any other way is o be corrupt!
    That's about the gist of it.

    Like jmac stated; if unions are wanted so much as claimed by union advocates, why the need to make it easier to corrupt the system?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dallas, Tx.
    Posts
    572
    Quote Originally Posted by Dowadudda View Post
    Sure it's still a choice. A choice to vote a union in.

    But remember, it was your own employees who had mutiny on you to begin with.
    In the cases that I have witnessed, the mutiny was orgastrated and promoted through propoganda- all from an organization that was, in no way, involved in the company operations. In a busy time, all around 1998 - 2001,
    everyone was working and labor was short. All cases involved new hires who came in either with the idea on their own, or directed by others, to act as organizers for the local. The M.O. was all the same, take the time to gain the trust of your fellow employees, bombard them with a lot of literature and promises, then organize a vote. All cases prompted a distribution of literature policy, and that alone was invasive on some good things that were going on.
    It was an ugly time and I feel that the union had no business approaching a company in that manner. I know that the union has been good for many, cardholders and non, and I can respect that. Some of the most technically proficient people I know came out of the union, but the tactics I personally wittnessed told me all that I needed to know. I am also certain that there are many long time cardholders who have not witnessed this and are not aware of the tactics. The "shortsightedness" falls on both sides of the fence.
    mike

  9. #48
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    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    68,864
    There are organizations that fully support unions;

    Quote:
    Trade unions in the USA insure a fair balance between what workers produce and what they receive. They have decisive power to enforce safety and health provisions, prevent speedup, and guarantee good transportation, working conditions and plant facilities.
    http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/13/
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    steeler nation
    Posts
    2,027
    [QUOTE=RoBoTeq;2079605]There are organizations that fully support unions;

    Quote:
    Trade unions in the USA insure a fair balance between what workers produce and what they receive. They have decisive power to enforce safety and health provisions, prevent speedup, and guarantee good transportation, working conditions and plant facilities.
    QUOTE]

    sounds terrible.
    IV IV IX

    use your head for something other than a hat rack.......Gerry

  11. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,864
    [quote=viceman;2079618]
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    There are organizations that fully support unions;

    Quote:
    Trade unions in the USA insure a fair balance between what workers produce and what they receive. They have decisive power to enforce safety and health provisions, prevent speedup, and guarantee good transportation, working conditions and plant facilities.
    QUOTE]

    sounds terrible.
    No, unfortunately it "sounds" good. Did you check the linked site I took that from?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    345
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Do you have an opinion on whether or not unions should be able to infiltrate companies without a secret ballot vote?
    My mistake, I'm still learning proper etiquette for online forums. This is the only one I have ever participated in.

    I believe everyone involved should have the choice to cast a secret ballot.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Organizations such as ACCA and ABC are not formed by contractors.
    Uh... no. This is from the ABC website.

    ABC was founded in 1950 when seven contractors gathered in Baltimore, Md. to create an association based on the shared belief that construction projects should be awarded on merit to the most qualified and responsible low bidders. Their courage and dedication to the merit shop philosophy spread rapidly, and within time, ABC became the fastest-growing association in the United States. Today, ABC is recognized as one of the leading organizations representing America's business community and the U.S. construction industry.

  13. #52
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    12,077
    okay, so I finally read the whole thing. I didn't understand earlier. I think the secret ballot is better.

    And so, what now? Do I freak out over something which I can't control?

    I got skills, and I can make money doing this or other things. I only really care about myself and how much I can earn based on my own performance. I can not control the rest. In the end, the customer decides what and whom they choose to be their "guy"
    People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.

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