To Unionize or Not To Unionize - Page 3
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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Orange Park Florida
    Posts
    224
    In my opinion, unions work against excellence.
    Having much respect for your opinion(your post made some very valid points)I offer this....

    Being in the union and working out of a unionized shop,we know that we are not the cheapest game in town. In order to continue to be competitive in todays economy, we strive to be THE BEST IN THE BUISINESS. The mechanical company that I work for utilizes SKILLED LABOR in the form of HVAC Techs, Welders, Plumbers, and Pipefitters. In our area ,our reputation for a job DONE RIGHT THE FIRST TIME speaks for itself.
    Local 234
    Have Gauge$ Will Travel

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,343
    Say what you will. There are employed techs in my union that can't perform. They are paid the same as I am as far as the union is concerned. Yes, I make better than rate, but I wouldn't say "far and away better"

    Our construction guys make $5 better than service here, too. Figure THAT out.

    Things may be different where you are, but that's the story here.

    Journeyman techs that completed the 5 years program that can barely connect a recovery pump. Can't diagnose a system low on gas.

    These are the guys who give unions a bad name and pi$$ off guys like me who do know and do work hard.

    "Slow down, buddy, you're making us all look bad.".

    Heard that on a union job.

    Maybe I need to move.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dallas, Tx.
    Posts
    572
    Quote Originally Posted by Dowadudda View Post
    It's this notion from you that says if your a lazy shlep, you can exist in the union. Let me be very clear here. The UA, servicde technicians side, is not a place where one can HIDE OUT. You have to perform. Your employability is on your merit. Period. No contractor is obligated to keep you one minute after he loses his confidence in you for any reason.
    Course hearty competition from good talent is something I have seen union guys not like too well. Breaks up the norm.

    yeagh right, I don;t see apprentices being properly mentored at all. Jeez, our apprentices, 3rd and 4rth years I had to teach them about microns.
    mike

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Milwaukee,WI
    Posts
    1,068
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    The worst journeyman in the local is paid the same as the best.

    Not true. I get paid a few $/hr over what the guys making journeyman scale make. And then there are the really good guys who get paid more than me. Not to mention additional perks that come with it.
    ___________________________

    Chicago is an indian word for stinky!!!!!!
    -supertek65

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Milwaukee,WI
    Posts
    1,068
    Quote Originally Posted by Dowadudda View Post
    This post is incorrect, and shows you, the lack of understanding of people who think they know.

    First off. The pay a bad guy gets is not the same pay a good guy gets. Good service technicians employed by unuion companies are far and away compensated better than the regular old shlep.

    Education is not free. To continue to go to classes as a journeymen, which are offered at the hall, you must pay out of your pocket for. And those classes are only offered if the membership can come up with 10 to 20 guys who want to get together and learn something by another member.

    It's this notion from you that says if your a lazy shlep, you can exist in the union. Let me be very clear here. The UA, servicde technicians side, is not a place where one can HIDE OUT. You have to perform. Your employability is on your merit. Period. No contractor is obligated to keep you one minute after he loses his confidence in you for any reason.

    A person who thinks they need the union to stay employed, this is nonsense. That person would find himself broke and unemployed.

    Where does this garbage come from?

    Agree 100%

    The union can not guarantee employment. It's pretty common to see the lazy guys sitting on the unemployment bench for months at a time.
    ___________________________

    Chicago is an indian word for stinky!!!!!!
    -supertek65

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Milwaukee,WI
    Posts
    1,068
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck65 View Post
    Having much respect for your opinion(your post made some very valid points)I offer this....

    Being in the union and working out of a unionized shop,we know that we are not the cheapest game in town. In order to continue to be competitive in todays economy, we strive to be THE BEST IN THE BUISINESS. The mechanical company that I work for utilizes SKILLED LABOR in the form of HVAC Techs, Welders, Plumbers, and Pipefitters. In our area ,our reputation for a job DONE RIGHT THE FIRST TIME speaks for itself.

    Same here. Being a notch above the rest is a MUST.
    ___________________________

    Chicago is an indian word for stinky!!!!!!
    -supertek65

  7. #33
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Our construction guys make $5 better than service here, too. Figure THAT out.
    That's pretty much the norm, and it's not hard to understand why. Guys on the construction side are laid off more often.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Milwaukee,WI
    Posts
    1,068
    Our commercial and industrial service guys make the same as construction guys (SMWIA).
    ___________________________

    Chicago is an indian word for stinky!!!!!!
    -supertek65

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,343
    If we are paid by merit, then why does "getting laid off" merit more pay when I have more skills?

    Not trying to be difficult, but this has stuck in my craw since I found out about it.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    12,077
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Say what you will. There are employed techs in my union that can't perform. They are paid the same as I am as far as the union is concerned. Yes, I make better than rate, but I wouldn't say "far and away better"

    Our construction guys make $5 better than service here, too. Figure THAT out.

    Things may be different where you are, but that's the story here.

    Journeyman techs that completed the 5 years program that can barely connect a recovery pump. Can't diagnose a system low on gas.

    These are the guys who give unions a bad name and pi$$ off guys like me who do know and do work hard.

    "Slow down, buddy, you're making us all look bad.".

    Heard that on a union job.

    Maybe I need to move.
    A quote from you in ARP :

    "What person in their right mind is going to give up that job to actually work for a living??! Sit around, drink coffee and get paid $31/ hour plus benefits!! Where do I sign up?

    Unions, another GREAT economic idea brought to us by the Democrats.

    And the Obamessiah is planning on making it easier to unionize... "

    Let me ask you. Are you a union member? What Union do you belong to?

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,343
    Steamfitters #449 Pittsburgh PA Mechanical Equipment Service Division Class of '03. UA STAR Certified in '06.

    Yes, I'm a union member. That doesn't necessarily mean that 100% pro union.

    I see the reasons and benefits of a collective bargaining unit, but I also see that bad side of it. Nothing is perfect.

    I am a union tech, paid on a union scale. I give my customers what they are paying for, some techs do not. That was not trained into me by the union.

    I guess the difference is in my view of it. In my opinion, I DO NOT work for the union. I work for a contractor. Same contractor that I have worked for for 14 years. When I was taken into the apprenticeship program, I was already running light commercial service. Without the union, I would still have a job in this industry, maybe not with this contractor, but I would work.

    As I said, I know and have worked with guys who would have a hard time staying employed without the protection given them by the union.

    If you actually "Do it right the first time." Great! But there are still those who don't, and they give us all a black eye.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Milwaukee,WI
    Posts
    1,068
    If you hate it so much then whats stoping you from working non-union???
    ___________________________

    Chicago is an indian word for stinky!!!!!!
    -supertek65

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,343
    A number of things.

    1. The contractor I work for is a good place to work. I have a steady, solid job. In these economic times, I'd be a fool to leave.

    2. I like my job. I have some problems with the union, but on the whole, I like my job.

    3. Last, but not least, there is the little matter of a contract I signed with the union. Basically, this contract states that they provided me an education and now I have to work union. Otherwise, they can and will sue me for the cost of my education. Since I don't have $15k laying around, I'll stick with the union.

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