Thank you Dowadudda for the vote of confidence. You've pretty much got me pegged
And thank you absrbrtek for your detailed reply. I am on a search for answers right now, and you've replied to every statement that I made in my second posting. Would you mind replying to the original post for this thread? Almost all of those questions are key to my final decision as to rather or not I should join with a union.
1. How long the apprenticeship would be? (Answered.)
2. Will my past schooling count towards the length of my apprenticeship? (Answered.)
3. What is the typical pay-scale of an apprentice??
4. If I become a member of the union, where does my insurance and retirement come from after I retire???
What's a 'scab'?
And what's an 'FMN'???
2. Will my past schooling count towards the length of my apprenticeship?
Probably not as you have no field or practical experience. It should weigh into you being excepted by the union or not into the aprenticeship program.
Originally Posted by HVAC_Grad
3. What is the typical pay-scale of an apprentice?
Varies from local to local. I think our local is 40% of journeymans wages the first 90 days, then it goes to 50%. Weeds out some of the ones that won't make it. Goes up about 10% a year there after till your a journeyman.
Originally Posted by HVAC_Grad
4. If I become a member of the union, where does my insurance and retirement come from after I retire?
Varies again by local. Employer pays for insurance 100%. Employer pays for pension or annuity, 401K or suplemental retirement, each local calls it something different.
Last edited by absrbrtek; 12-13-2008 at 04:26 AM.
Your poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part!!!!
the one and only thing that the unions have to offer, IMO, is the best education available to the tradesmen. With that being said, there are plenty of private shops that, in association with manufacturers and private training groups, offer equal opportunities for education. The bottom line is that you make your own bed. I have known union guys and non-union guys who are among the most intelligent men in this industry. I have also known men, both union and non, who are among the laziest, most unreliable men that I have ever met. The union may have a lot to offer to a new man in this field, but the union is not the only place to turn.
Those who will succeed, union or not, and those who NEED the union to stay employed.
I have worked with both types of guys.
The questions you need to ask yourself are:
What kind of tech will you be? Will you seek out information and do everything possible to be the best tech you can be? Will you check and test everything on every call?
If that is the case, then you don't NEED to be unionized. You will succeed, union or not.
If, on the other hand, you are a person who chooses to do the minimum required to accomplish a task. Then you ought to consider the union, they will keep you working.
Unions offer a decent education, but nothing that cannot be obtained through other sources. The big advantage of union education is the cost. Its FREE!
Unions will never outdistance the lowest common denominator. The worst journeyman in the local is paid the same as the best.
In my opinion, unions work against excellence.
This post is incorrect, and shows you, the lack of understanding of people who think they know.
First off. The pay a bad guy gets is not the same pay a good guy gets. Good service technicians employed by unuion companies are far and away compensated better than the regular old shlep.
Education is not free. To continue to go to classes as a journeymen, which are offered at the hall, you must pay out of your pocket for. And those classes are only offered if the membership can come up with 10 to 20 guys who want to get together and learn something by another member.
It's this notion from you that says if your a lazy shlep, you can exist in the union. Let me be very clear here. The UA, servicde technicians side, is not a place where one can HIDE OUT. You have to perform. Your employability is on your merit. Period. No contractor is obligated to keep you one minute after he loses his confidence in you for any reason.
A person who thinks they need the union to stay employed, this is nonsense. That person would find himself broke and unemployed.
The point that needs to be understood by HVAC grad, is that, you can mae yourself one heck of a guy in this business based on himself, his desire, his aptitude, his determination, fortitude, ect ect ect.
He doesn't need to worry about being affiliated with anything. He needs a job to hit the ground running. All these other things will unfold and present themselves to him as he gains traction with his skills and experience.
No one needs the Union to open the doors of opportunity, just like no one in the non union world is absent of serious prerequisites for employment.
I am trying to tell the kid. Get a job, any job, that lets you get dirty, turn wrenches and get knee deep with what you just learned. Come talk to me in 3 years and we can talk about all this other complexity in the trade outside of skills.