Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 14 to 26 of 63
  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,992
    I am extremely proud of my aprentice. I see your point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dowadudda View Post
    and you know what. Who taught him that? Who was responsible to see him to that learning. It takes willingness, investment, mentoring. I know it wasn't the hall. You see my angle here?
    Your poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part!!!!

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    6
    Thank you Dowadudda for the vote of confidence. You've pretty much got me pegged

    And thank you absrbrtek for your detailed reply. I am on a search for answers right now, and you've replied to every statement that I made in my second posting. Would you mind replying to the original post for this thread? Almost all of those questions are key to my final decision as to rather or not I should join with a union.

    1. How long the apprenticeship would be? (Answered.)
    2. Will my past schooling count towards the length of my apprenticeship? (Answered.)
    3. What is the typical pay-scale of an apprentice??
    4. If I become a member of the union, where does my insurance and retirement come from after I retire???

    What's a 'scab'?
    What's 'blackballed'??
    And what's an 'FMN'???

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,992
    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Grad View Post
    1. How long the apprenticeship would be?
    5 years and about 10,000 hours of OJT.

    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Grad View Post
    2. Will my past schooling count towards the length of my apprenticeship?
    Probably not as you have no field or practical experience. It should weigh into you being excepted by the union or not into the aprenticeship program.

    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Grad View Post
    3. What is the typical pay-scale of an apprentice?
    Varies from local to local. I think our local is 40% of journeymans wages the first 90 days, then it goes to 50%. Weeds out some of the ones that won't make it. Goes up about 10% a year there after till your a journeyman.

    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Grad View Post
    4. If I become a member of the union, where does my insurance and retirement come from after I retire?
    Varies again by local. Employer pays for insurance 100%. Employer pays for pension or annuity, 401K or suplemental retirement, each local calls it something different.
    Last edited by absrbrtek; 12-13-2008 at 03:26 AM.
    Your poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part!!!!

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    6
    Thanks absrbrtek, you seemed like you were a little pissed off about something earlier, but you've managed to help me out again.

    I really do appreciate it.

    I am going to attempt to collect more information from members within my Local over the next two weeks.

    I am hoping to speak face-to-face with a couple of different members.
    I can update you guys with details if you'd like.

    Either way, thanks for all of your input.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,992
    LOL, we all have those days!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by HVAC_Grad View Post
    Thanks absrbrtek, you seemed like you were a little pissed off about something earlier, but you've managed to help me out again.
    Your poor planning does not constitute an emergency on my part!!!!

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Cleveland,TN.
    Posts
    143
    Absorbtek= hater j/k

    he pretty much staed it for you he is a realist

    union hmm spent 17 years at first it was great and then the sh_tbags started taking our bennys away but they sure continued having some real nice vehicles for themselves.(BA managers)

    Now no union, more money and better bennys go figure

    the only thing the union did for me was NOTHING

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dallas, Tx.
    Posts
    572
    the one and only thing that the unions have to offer, IMO, is the best education available to the tradesmen. With that being said, there are plenty of private shops that, in association with manufacturers and private training groups, offer equal opportunities for education. The bottom line is that you make your own bed. I have known union guys and non-union guys who are among the most intelligent men in this industry. I have also known men, both union and non, who are among the laziest, most unreliable men that I have ever met. The union may have a lot to offer to a new man in this field, but the union is not the only place to turn.
    mike

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,721
    I guess there are 2 kinds of techs.

    Those who will succeed, union or not, and those who NEED the union to stay employed.

    I have worked with both types of guys.


    The questions you need to ask yourself are:

    What kind of tech will you be? Will you seek out information and do everything possible to be the best tech you can be? Will you check and test everything on every call?

    If that is the case, then you don't NEED to be unionized. You will succeed, union or not.

    If, on the other hand, you are a person who chooses to do the minimum required to accomplish a task. Then you ought to consider the union, they will keep you working.

    Unions offer a decent education, but nothing that cannot be obtained through other sources. The big advantage of union education is the cost. Its FREE!

    Unions will never outdistance the lowest common denominator. The worst journeyman in the local is paid the same as the best.

    In my opinion, unions work against excellence.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dallas, Tx.
    Posts
    572
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post

    In my opinion, unions work against excellence.
    I agree, unless you are the type who will seek his own self-improvement..
    There are many techs of the type that will allow the union to breed laziness.
    mike

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Howell, Michigan
    Posts
    16,176
    Let's move this into the job discussion forum.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    12,077
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    I guess there are 2 kinds of techs.

    Those who will succeed, union or not, and those who NEED the union to stay employed.

    I have worked with both types of guys.


    The questions you need to ask yourself are:

    What kind of tech will you be? Will you seek out information and do everything possible to be the best tech you can be? Will you check and test everything on every call?

    If that is the case, then you don't NEED to be unionized. You will succeed, union or not.

    If, on the other hand, you are a person who chooses to do the minimum required to accomplish a task. Then you ought to consider the union, they will keep you working.

    Unions offer a decent education, but nothing that cannot be obtained through other sources. The big advantage of union education is the cost. Its FREE!

    Unions will never outdistance the lowest common denominator. The worst journeyman in the local is paid the same as the best.

    In my opinion, unions work against excellence.
    This post is incorrect, and shows you, the lack of understanding of people who think they know.

    First off. The pay a bad guy gets is not the same pay a good guy gets. Good service technicians employed by unuion companies are far and away compensated better than the regular old shlep.

    Education is not free. To continue to go to classes as a journeymen, which are offered at the hall, you must pay out of your pocket for. And those classes are only offered if the membership can come up with 10 to 20 guys who want to get together and learn something by another member.

    It's this notion from you that says if your a lazy shlep, you can exist in the union. Let me be very clear here. The UA, servicde technicians side, is not a place where one can HIDE OUT. You have to perform. Your employability is on your merit. Period. No contractor is obligated to keep you one minute after he loses his confidence in you for any reason.

    A person who thinks they need the union to stay employed, this is nonsense. That person would find himself broke and unemployed.

    Where does this garbage come from?

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    12,077
    You guys concentrate on this so called AFFILIATION concept of Union versus non union.

    There is certainly differences in structure of employment. And pay and benefits and all of this stuff. And that can be debated.

    But.

    The customer, out there, equal access to all of us, decides who he or she wants to come and respond and repair their equipment.

    You guys who think you have an edge because of this or that, you guys who think you know and spit out nonsense about what you don't know. That goes for both sides.

    I honestly am sick of it. Tell the truth or keep your mouth shut.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    12,077
    The point that needs to be understood by HVAC grad, is that, you can mae yourself one heck of a guy in this business based on himself, his desire, his aptitude, his determination, fortitude, ect ect ect.

    He doesn't need to worry about being affiliated with anything. He needs a job to hit the ground running. All these other things will unfold and present themselves to him as he gains traction with his skills and experience.

    No one needs the Union to open the doors of opportunity, just like no one in the non union world is absent of serious prerequisites for employment.

    I am trying to tell the kid. Get a job, any job, that lets you get dirty, turn wrenches and get knee deep with what you just learned. Come talk to me in 3 years and we can talk about all this other complexity in the trade outside of skills.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event