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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    with or without LNS the performance and scaleability is significantly greater than Tridium can deliver on the data-side for large installations.
    Don't know what you have been smoking. Maybe that's why you can't remember...
    Where does your performance and scalability stats come from, thin air? Show me the case study.
    The same way you can throw a bunch of iLons together, aggregate them under a bunch of point servers, and them bring it all back to a glorified SymmetrE front end, I can do the same with JACEs and a single Supervisor.
    Best of all, I can do it all without Windows and IIS.

  2. #15
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    How many packets/second can a JACE handle on a LON channel, FT10 or IP852?

    When I have more than 7 JACE's connected with AX supervisor in a LON (non-LNS) network tell me how fast data moves packets/second?

    Poll rates, architecture limitations or guidelines...

    Afterwards, I'd be more than happy to discuss the rates in a LON network without the use of the JACE.

    EDIT- I'm not starting a contest here. I just had a previous sales guy for my company utilize ingenious ways to increase data throughput for Tridium using our products... anyway, are there any published guidelines on JACE capacity?

    EDIT2- There is a definitive disadvantage with the Neuron chip based daughter boards. That's a given. It's slower.
    Last edited by sysint; 12-18-2008 at 08:46 PM.

  3. #16
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    ...from a previous discussion:

    "4. You can't connect to the trunk (FT-10 channel) and reconfigure a device on another channel. This is a real practical issue if you are working on a VAV box in a system and the AHU is on another channel as it might be in a large system. This is because the JACE does not route LON talk messages, it only gateway data messages like NV updates. This become more of an issue when you are diagnosing configuration/system tuning.

    5. If you share data between devices on different channels, you are not getting a true acknowledged handshake at the LonTalk protocol level. The gateway must fake out do the handshake which could lead to some issues."


    "So everything has it's pros and cons. All these observations are based on my experience with R2, AX may have fixed all the things I'm talking about. I haven't worked with AX enough to say. Just base what you do on what will best match what the customer is looking for. As I see it, if the customer doesn't need to integrate multiple vendors/protocols, and doesn't need web access, I'd avoid it. The larger the job the more problems you may run into. (We have Caesars Palace running with soft Jaces, and that's a monster of a job, but by the grace of God we had a pretty smart guy who was able to get the system up to snuff, but it wasn't easy by any means)
    In essence, a Jace will do everything somewhat acceptably, but it excels at nothing."


    Anyway, I'd like to see some specs on what the AX actually does LON-wise.

  4. #17
    I know you are a purist, and thats cool. But I will take the "niagara network" solution to these problems VS your way. Its kind of like a Amish/English thing.

  5. #18
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    Freddie, I guess I'm wondering why you guys don't question why there's a "choke" on the box when there doesn't need to be one...

    ...could the answer be sell more boxes?

  6. #19
    If the world was LON and only LON, you might have a point.

    So you have a funny car dragster, and we have a vette. We are fast enough, and we handle the curves alot better.

  7. #20
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    Actually Freddie, this could be an interesting discussion. It's not that simple.
    Are you snowed in today?

  8. #21
    Ice encrusted is more like it.

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    How many packets/second can a JACE handle on a LON channel, FT10 or IP852?
    Enough to handle a typical bus, with up to 120+ devices, tp/ft-10 router, and JACE. I'm not worried about packet throughput on IP852. We're talking about moving data from a 78Kbps link, to a 100Mbps backbone. The IP side will never be the bottleneck.

    When I have more than 7 JACE's connected with AX supervisor in a LON (non-LNS) network tell me how fast data moves packets/second?
    FYI, the Supervisor is never licensed for lon. IP only.
    Assuming fully loaded channels, 78Kbps * 7 = 546Kbps, or 0.55 Mbps.
    What's that, 0.55% of my bandwidth?

    Poll rates, architecture limitations or guidelines...
    call Tridium for the documentation.

    I just had a previous sales guy for my company utilize ingenious ways to increase data throughput for Tridium using our products... anyway, are there any published guidelines on JACE capacity?
    Loytec products work great with Tridium, as I'm sure you've found out from your visit with Dan.
    There's a resource usage guide for a 201, but that's related to the component capacity as it applies to # of controllers, etc. Just follow the protocol standards and you should be fine.

    There is a definitive disadvantage with the Neuron chip based daughter boards. That's a given. It's slower.
    Same if using the Echelon PCLTA-21 or PCC-10 interface. Or an ilon for that matter. They've all got the 78Kbps neuron chips. It's what the field devices use sysint.

  10. #23
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    Digo- The bottleneck is IN the box, not outside of the box for IP852.


    Also-- "Same if using the Echelon PCLTA-21 or PCC-10 interface. Or an ilon for that matter. They've all got the 78Kbps neuron chips. It's what the field devices use sysint."

    Not all of them... and it makes a difference. Check out our NICS and see if you can see the difference.

    Also, I'd like to see what you are doing with 120 devices on your channel. Heck I'd like to see what you are doing with 60.

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    "4. You can't connect to the trunk (FT-10 channel) and reconfigure a device on another channel."
    I use the existing IT infrastructure, it's much faster. I've even used a 3G connection on my laptop to access the system via their public ip. I can tunnel in (fox) to each and every JACE.
    With EBI, once the LNS db is synchronized, you have to hassle with sandboxing the channel. A real PITA. With a JACE, I can do everything live, no database to sync.

    "5. If you share data between devices on different channels, you are not getting a true acknowledged handshake at the LonTalk protocol level. The gateway must fake out do the handshake which could lead to some issues."
    Even when using an L-IP?

    "So everything has it's pros and cons. All these observations are based on my experience with R2..."
    Your argument was killed right about... there.


    As I see it, if the customer doesn't need to integrate multiple vendors/protocols, and doesn't need web access, I'd avoid it. The larger the job the more problems you may run into.
    And what percentage of the market is that? Show me a spec that doesn't call for web access.
    Not everyone is setup to handle the "larger jobs."

    "In essence, a Jace will do everything somewhat acceptably, but it excels at nothing."
    Wow, this came from a Sales guy? You don't say... what does he sell?

  12. #25
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    May 2002
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    Digo- You need to go back and scratch your last post. I was quoting another thread. Take another look. I think the guy was actually a building engineer. I just commented that I'd like to see the specs on performance. Why don't you have them?

  13. #26

    The Controls Market Race!


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