No Objective Truth?
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 31
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579

    No Objective Truth?

    I have been taking a number of graduate level college courses at a state university and have encountered several professors who claim there is no such thing as absolute truth. This comes from a worldview known as postmodernism and is held by most university professors these days.

    Many postmodern college professors promote the presupposition that no objective truth exists, that truth is relative. I have heard this stated in several college classes by several professors and my adult children report the same in several of their college courses.

    Now if you go after the notion that there is no objective truth, then it does not make sense to talk about things being true or false or right or wrong, because there is no such thing. It is meaningless to have a discussion regarding truth because there is no such thing.

    The statement “there is no objective reality” is a statement of absolute truth itself. I guess we have at least one statement of objective reality; that there is no objective reality. However, the statement cannot be true because if it is false it is false and if it is true it falsifies itself! Therefore, the presupposition that there is no objective reality is absolutely incorrect! The postmodern idea of no objective reality destroys itself since it is a self-refuting claim. Even if it were a true statement there would be no way of knowing it.

    After more thought I have decided that nobody actually believes in this notion of no objective truth. If a professor actually believes this then he or she would out of honesty have to admit that my subjective reality is mine and is equally true to his subjective reality which is true for him. Therefore, I should be left alone in my version of reality and not be subjected to his version. Since there is no objective reality there is nothing for me to learn, so there would be no such thing as an education or an educated person and we can dismiss class and all go home. And, of course I want my refund since there was nothing to learn and nothing taught.

    You see how empty and vacuous the idea of no objective reality or no objective truth actually is? The truth is that there is objective reality and absolute truth in the world and it is possible to be right or to be wrong. Without objective truth and reality it would be impossible to have intelligent rational discourse with one another.

    What is your take on this topic?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677
    You can probably count on Scrog to pipe up here. He'll be wrong...but he'll pipe up none-the-less. And that is my subjective truth.

    How 'bout it, Scrog? Am I right? Or am I right?

    That being said, I will add, ALL truth is objective. It does not require our belief of it to be truth.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    I got to say it... another missed opportunity by a certain somebody.

    John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. -- NIV

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God's elect and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— 2 faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,... --NIV

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,744
    When logic preceeds understanding self-rightenous results. This is the new world of self-interest that we have created. We created this thought process through various ways and means.

    And it's a common thought process learned on the streets, in public schools and, especially, institutions of higher learning.

    I study these things too. I have for years because it forms how we act, talk and do. And I like to see how things work.

    Intellect is what I have labled it. It's a form of narcissism developed through the human Psyche that evolved naturally because of centerness on one's focus on one's self.

    My daughters generation is full of it even though most of us did not raise them in these ways. But in our endevor to provide for them a better life we let the cat out of the bag. And it will be next to impossible to get that cat - no less put it back in the bag.

    We can't do it. We can't go back and show them that life doesn't center around them. But life and its hard lessons can. We, as a nation, are starting to experience just a taste of this now as indicated by the financial failings of this nation due to uncontrolled and unchallenged consumer gluttonous.

    Since people who have this train of thought have a self-centered view of the world then they certainly have the right and believe to have all things related to reality centered conveniently around them.

    Then they find the others that have the same thought process...and there are plenty these day and in many of the days past. And the more we push that they will be second class citizens without a college degree, well, the more we enable and encourage this process.

    The colleges are booked up now and have been. So the very systems that teach this value system have a free market to young brains at our present and future costs.

    Anyway, here's one actually example to think about.

    An elementary school class had show & tell. One child brought a puppy. Another child asked "Is it a girl or boy?" Not knowing how to tell the children were confused. So another child stated that they all should take a vote to determine if the puppy is a boy or girl. They voted and they created their own reality.

    This is a true story. Problem is these kids grow up without growing up. And no one challenged them that this is not the correct way but let them have their ways in order that they would feel good.

    We just had an election where most of the voters, not all, have this mentality that in life they should always feel good. And the nominee played to this brilliantly because he is one of them.

    Interesting, huh? That's my 2 cents.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    17,771
    Here we go with the bible babble again.

    In any case, I agree with Boots.
    "Politicians are the lowest form of life on Earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician"

    - General George S. Patton

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    6,579
    Three of us in my family are taking university classes at the same time. My son (25), my daughter (23) and I are all getting the same relative truth line from our professors. We each attend different state universities. My daughter is taking elementary education classes, my son is taking criminal justice classes and I am in a Master's degree program in education.

    With this postmodern relative truth centered education being promoted to our nation's teachers and legal professionals is it any wonder that our nation is going the way it is?

    My children are not buying the postmodern sales pitch and immediately recognized it for the false presupposition that it is based upon. However, they are amazed at how none of their classmates recognize the false presuppositional basis. Their classmates do not question anything they are taught. Our schools of education are turning out blind followers who do not even question what they are fed. These are the teachers of our children.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,744
    Yep,
    I was listening to some documentary withing the last year where some school district in Colorado, I think, had a team of professionals where the kids could ask questions about life and making choices. These were suppose to be respected pros brought in for kids leadership in life.

    The majority of this board of experts stated to the large audience of that high school, I think, that they should experiement in anything they should. They should try drugs, have as much sex as they could with anyone willing, boy or girl....and on and on. This was on tape and recorded for all to hear.

    I never knew the result but these people should have been run out of town. I can guarantee that they are still probably in their authority positions.

    Second, I was listening to a young college lady that failed a psy class because she refused to do the professors assignment, which was to have a gay dating relationship with a person of the same sex and write a paper about that relationship.

    This assignment was given to all the students. According to her many of the students made a story up but some followed the professors lead.

    Real sick part of this is...all this is not new. It's been happening this way for about 20 years at least in my experience.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677
    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    Here we go with the bible babble again.

    In any case, I agree with Boots.
    Funny, that. What I said can be backed up by Scripture.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    Yep,
    I was listening to some documentary withing the last year where some school district in Colorado, I think, had a team of professionals where the kids could ask questions about life and making choices. These were suppose to be respected pros brought in for kids leadership in life.

    The majority of this board of experts stated to the large audience of that high school, I think, that they should experiement in anything they should. They should try drugs, have as much sex as they could with anyone willing, boy or girl....and on and on. This was on tape and recorded for all to hear.

    I never knew the result but these people should have been run out of town. I can guarantee that they are still probably in their authority positions.

    Second, I was listening to a young college lady that failed a psy class because she refused to do the professors assignment, which was to have a gay dating relationship with a person of the same sex and write a paper about that relationship.

    This assignment was given to all the students. According to her many of the students made a story up but some followed the professors lead.

    Real sick part of this is...all this is not new. It's been happening this way for about 20 years at least in my experience.
    Well, it is a well known fact that there are more fools per capita on college campuses than in any other setting; remove all the students and the number approaches 100%.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Posts
    2,985
    Quote Originally Posted by NormChris View Post
    I have been taking a number of graduate level college courses at a state university and have encountered several professors who claim there is no such thing as absolute truth. This comes from a worldview known as postmodernism and is held by most university professors these days.
    There was a recent thread which contains a few intelligent posts on Absolute Truth : http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....180530&page=30

    I don't think most professors hold that view, though many no doubt do. IMHO, it is a precondition for believing the universe was not created by an intelligence. Accepting the existence of Absolute Truth presents significant philosophical problems for the atheist, at least those who can think that deep.

    Quote Originally Posted by bootlen View Post
    You can probably count on Scrog to pipe up here. He'll be wrong...but he'll pipe up none-the-less. And that is my subjective truth.

    How 'bout it, Scrog? Am I right? Or am I right?
    You're probably wrong. Scrog is trying to first bone up a bit on the subject of thermodynamics...
    If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail. – Abraham Maslow

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    20,677
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Schoen View Post



    You're probably wrong. Scrog is trying to first bone up a bit on the subject of thermodynamics...
    Given that you and I know there is, indeed, absolute truth, I may or may not be correct. BUT...the post was to Scrog who cannot possibly answer my question without proving he is wrong about absolute truth. I wait.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

    For those who have fought for it, freedom has a sweetness the protected will never know.

    http://www.airwarvietnam.com/16thSOSGunners2.jpg

    Proud member of KA Club

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    14,156
    Quote Originally Posted by NormChris View Post
    I have been taking a number of graduate level college courses at a state university and have encountered several professors who claim there is no such thing as absolute truth. This comes from a worldview known as postmodernism and is held by most university professors these days.

    Many postmodern college professors promote the presupposition that no objective truth exists, that truth is relative. I have heard this stated in several college classes by several professors and my adult children report the same in several of their college courses.

    Now if you go after the notion that there is no objective truth, then it does not make sense to talk about things being true or false or right or wrong, because there is no such thing. It is meaningless to have a discussion regarding truth because there is no such thing.

    The statement “there is no objective reality” is a statement of absolute truth itself. I guess we have at least one statement of objective reality; that there is no objective reality. However, the statement cannot be true because if it is false it is false and if it is true it falsifies itself! Therefore, the presupposition that there is no objective reality is absolutely incorrect! The postmodern idea of no objective reality destroys itself since it is a self-refuting claim. Even if it were a true statement there would be no way of knowing it.

    After more thought I have decided that nobody actually believes in this notion of no objective truth. If a professor actually believes this then he or she would out of honesty have to admit that my subjective reality is mine and is equally true to his subjective reality which is true for him. Therefore, I should be left alone in my version of reality and not be subjected to his version. Since there is no objective reality there is nothing for me to learn, so there would be no such thing as an education or an educated person and we can dismiss class and all go home. And, of course I want my refund since there was nothing to learn and nothing taught.

    You see how empty and vacuous the idea of no objective reality or no objective truth actually is? The truth is that there is objective reality and absolute truth in the world and it is possible to be right or to be wrong. Without objective truth and reality it would be impossible to have intelligent rational discourse with one another.

    What is your take on this topic?
    If there is no objective truth, then it stands to reason there is no Lying? I believe there is absolute truth and lying.



    psycho babble from professors is a frustrating thing. They all ready assume they are correct and no matter what you say or what logic you use, there is no changing there mind.
    BEING AN ADULT

    is the dumbest thing I have ever done

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event