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  1. #27
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    911
    Quote Originally Posted by dano View Post
    As others have stated ventilation is probably the answer. Try and run the exhaust fan in the bathroom longer if you have one, if not get that first. Also on colder nights run the kitchen fan and see if it helps, if so then you know which way to go. Older homes generally are not tight and will allow fresh air in with exhaust running.
    Trying to get rid of the condensation isn't the point, it's more of why are they sweating with specs being so good? Is it because the indoor glass temperature vs outdoor temperature values are really the center of the pane with the corners being much colder? Or is it because they are refering to the panes tested in a lab and not after they are assembled into a vinyl frame? Specs for Low-E glass show indoor glass surface temperatures of over 50F with a outside temperature of 20F.

    Dropping my RH to around 32%, I'm condensation free down to 18F but the last few nights down to 1F, they sweat in the bottom corners "only".

    By the way! You may heard on the news last month where a Chicago window and door manufacturer closed its doors on 300 workers without paying severance or vacation pay due to them? That was the manufacturer of these windows!!
    Bill

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by homersodyssey View Post
    Have you considered installing a HRV?

    This is a new one to me. What exactly is an HRV? Im sure I have heard of it but it might have been called something else.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    4H: Hot, Humid Houston H.O.
    Posts
    3,304
    Quote Originally Posted by sokoservices View Post
    This is a new one to me. What exactly is an HRV? Im sure I have heard of it but it might have been called something else.
    http://www.popularmechanics.com/home...s/1275121.html

    http://apps1.eere.energy.gov/consume.../mytopic=11900

    Hope this helps -- Pstu

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,793
    Quote Originally Posted by wptski View Post
    I had all my old aluminum windows replaced with vinyl Low-E, gas filled type.

    Here in Michigan we've had some pretty cold nights the last few days. I noticed water droplets in the bottom corners of the unmovable panes but "not" the sliders.

    My humidity was 45-47%. I have a dual input therometer with K-type bead probes which I taped to a corner on the pane. I also have a logging hydrometer which calculates dewpoint, both can download to a PC.

    When the night time temperatures drops below 20F, the surface temperature of the glass in the corners goes below the dewpoint! Bingo!!

    All I can read about Low-E glass surface temperature states that it should be 40-50F higher than the outside temperature. Mine are about 20F higher in the corners but the center of the pane is 13F warmer. This means that the cold temperature is being transfered through the vinyl frame. Not sure about all this sales talk or are not all Low-E vinyl windows the same.

    The information I read from the glass manufactures sites but what happens when they are installed in a frame, etc?

    All tempertures taken were compared with a thermal imager and agreed.

    I dropped my humidity to 40% but that didn't help. I drop it to 35% now but last night it didn't get that cold.

    I've search here and found threads that said that it's not the windows but if they aren't doing what their supposed to, well?
    who makes the logger that you're using?

  5. #31
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    911
    Quote Originally Posted by air2spare View Post
    who makes the logger that you're using?
    The temperature logging of the window surface was done with two Fluke 54-IIs and the air temperature, humidity and dew point logging was done with a GE Protimeter Hygromaster.

    They have little Humidity, Temperature and Dew Point Data Logger now that plug into your USB port which you program to log at different intervals, set alarm levels that indicate with colored LEDs and software graphing. One version has a LCD screen.
    Bill

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    77
    What temperature awere you keeping the room at during these cold nights?

  7. #33
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    911
    Quote Originally Posted by Baseboard Gord View Post
    What temperature awere you keeping the room at during these cold nights?
    The thermostat was set to 65F but that's in a hallway. I could look at the graphs to tell you exactly what it went down to.

    I've talked to people on the phone about this, posted this thread, etc. Since this thread was revived, I took interest again into the problem.

    I Googled "condensation on LoE glass". That came up with numerous hits on the issue. Seems dual pane LoE "helps" to prevent condensation because of the warmer glass temperature but it doesn't entirely prevent it! The only way to do that is with a triple pane window.

    Although some windows might be better than others, condensation can still happen with dual pane LoE windows even with low humidity levels. It's a common complaint from people that purchased new windows(me) expecting to eliminate condensation problems. They still have the problem and sometimes worse because the new windows have made the home tighter.

    The search explained one other issue too. Why the condensation only appeared at the bottom of the fixed pane and not on the slider. As warm air cools it falls along the window and gets trapped in the eregular shape of the sash and therefore makes that area cooler. My testing showed that the bottom edge of the slider was warmer than the bottom edge of the fixed pane. I couldn't figure that out since both are exposed to outside temperatures.
    Bill

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    lol who cares about the shape when your windows are sweating
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cedar Grove, Wi-Sheboygan
    Posts
    1,582
    Afer reading wptski post about triple pane widows to avoid having condensation on the inside of your windows, IMO that would be a bad idea based on this theory, if your having humidity issues and to avoid the problem you replace your windows with low-e triple pane's would be a bad idea because your just avoiding the real problems and thus the HO's not going to know the RH in the home is higher than it probably should be.

    So there wouldn't be any good indicators visually or otherwise and would be doing unforeseen damage to the exterior walls of the home where anything more than a lightly positive pressure with in the home will drive the humidity thru the walls forming ice, mold damage that will and can go unnoticed for years. Just my observation

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    i have never seen much more than 40% RH and clear glass with triple panes, low e and filled wth gas
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

  11. #37
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    911
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnak View Post
    lol who cares about the shape when your windows are sweating
    What do you mean by shape?
    Bill

  12. #38
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    911
    Quote Originally Posted by DanW13 View Post
    Afer reading wptski post about triple pane widows to avoid having condensation on the inside of your windows, IMO that would be a bad idea based on this theory, if your having humidity issues and to avoid the problem you replace your windows with low-e triple pane's would be a bad idea because your just avoiding the real problems and thus the HO's not going to know the RH in the home is higher than it probably should be.

    So there wouldn't be any good indicators visually or otherwise and would be doing unforeseen damage to the exterior walls of the home where anything more than a lightly positive pressure with in the home will drive the humidity thru the walls forming ice, mold damage that will and can go unnoticed for years. Just my observation
    The point is that triple pane has a higher inside glass temperature than double pane.

    When you take a cold beer from the fridge and condensation forms on the outside of the container, does that means for sure that you have too much humidity in your home?

    Yeah, you could have too high of RH but that's not always the case. There were people being told that they had too high of RH and were getting static shocks all the time.

    One person had condensation on all his new Pella windows except for one which Pella didn't have one to fit so it was a Anderson!
    Bill

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    won't get a shock at 35 & 40%
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

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