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Thread: Circon

  1. #14
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    9,564
    Again, I'd VMWARE any sites you have out there as a precaution.
    I'd also make sure you backup your LM DB's.
    That solves your short term issues and gives you updated DB's you can use with any other LNS platform out there.

    Next I'd monitor who picks this stuff up.

    Finally, I'd look into the cryptkey, on both sides. Maybe they have a policy for this situation.

    Anyway, I think somebody picks up the pieces here. Largely, the problems with Circon were not the software, or even most of the hardware.

    Now you guys know when I visit why I tell you I don't like dealing with software on PC's and would much rather have devices like Touchscreens and web servers instead.

  2. #15
    I feel a great disturbance in the Lon, as if millions of SNVT cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.......................................... .................

  3. #16
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    May 2002
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    Obi-Lon, maybe you can tell us the story a LON time ago....

    Obi-Lon Kenobi, this isn't the only disturbance. Many are turning away from using the LNS because of the influence of the bacnet and the Tridium. The result is millions of sites can go back to their proprietary darkside configurations that lock out the openness of the past. I have to say the Echelon plays a part in this in that they need to let go of their licensing and make a new model immediately. The great Obama is determined to upgrade government buildings everywhere. This is no time for the keepers of the SNVT's to be foolish and shortsighted.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Purcellville Va.
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    716
    Next I'd monitor who picks this stuff up.
    Maybe one of those unnamed European companies would like to have a line of controllers

  5. #18
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    May 2002
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    I can safely safe NO to that.

    However, I think it's prudent to figure out who is using our tech and I'd take some more notice of those automation servers you see out there now...

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    NY
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    Frankly, I would like to see an American company with an open distribution model pick up the line. LON is becoming very similar to BACnet lately with its restricted distribution and very limited options to purchase controllers.

  7. #20
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    May 2002
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    Well, who do you thank for that? Do we blame ASHRAE for pushing their model so hard? I would like to.

    However, it is backfiring on them because now we have Tridium and they do it better than ASHRAE bacnet. I'm sure those ASHRAE guys weren't counting on that.

    You need bigger guys in the industry to force the change.

    For instance, If I were the GSA I think I'd have to spec free config tools and that any controls manufacturer working with GSA would have to guarantee and provide their config tools free and interoperable or freely configurable to any contractors working in the building for additions, PM, etc... Then maybe you suddenly see standard config methods from the manufacturers.

    I'm certain if you were GSA and told Liebert no sales until you provide open comms standard and went to Alerton or Delta and said you need to provide free software config tools they would be doing it rather than lose the business. Same goes for LON vendors on their programmable controllers. Provide your control language via plugin or no sale...

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    NY
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    2,144
    It's not just the big guys. All the LON manufacturers are sealing their own fate. Echelon is the only manufacturer that markets their products openly. Unfortunately they have abandoned the HVAC market. All other manufacturers either have 'closed' distribution or they distribute through ONE wholesaler in this country. Your present employer included.

    Until something changes, I will be working primarily with BACnet stuff.

    I don't think it is up to the 'customers' to fix this problem. This is a problem created by the manufacturers and is up to them to fix it. In a head-to-head the LON manufacturers will never compete with the BACnet guys in the closed market.

    Maybe LonMark should focus a little more on getting the market opened a little as well.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    345
    It would be nice to see LonMark do something...period!

  10. #23
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    May 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by dapper View Post
    It's not just the big guys. All the LON manufacturers are sealing their own fate. Echelon is the only manufacturer that markets their products openly. Unfortunately they have abandoned the HVAC market. All other manufacturers either have 'closed' distribution or they distribute through ONE wholesaler in this country. Your present employer included....
    I'm sorry Dapper but that is entirely incorrect that you can only get our product from one distributor. You can presently get our product through (currently) two distributors, manufacturers (TAC, JCI, Hwell, Distech..) and of course directly through us. I imagine if more distributors were smart enough we would have more places to buy our product. Anyway, if you are working bacnet you can use our stuff also. We have bacnet touchscreen, router, and server. And, the AST functions are shared across bacnet or LON.

    I imagine you only get your bacnet from the manufacturer. At least with most LON products you can go direct or even get some product via distribution which is STILL more than the bacnet vendors. Until large entities like GSA thumb their nose at the ASHRAE inspired closed market techniques any progress will be stifled. They are the ones pushing the industry closed. They have been doing it day one with the goal of forcing the industry toward their protocol. Again, it's good Tridium sat back and decided to beat them at their own game. Good for Tridium. I'm no member of ASHRAE, and if they continue violate their code of ethics I don't see the point.

  11. #24
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    Mar 2003
    Location
    NY
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    I was not aware that I could get your product either through you or more than one distributor. The last time that I inquired I was told only one distributor and not given the option to buy direct. I have used the L-VIS and was looking at the possibility of contacting you this week regarding a BACnet version.

    Let me know who the distributors are, e-mail in my profile.

    I have had no luck buying LON products direct, everyone wants a contract. If you know of open sources, let me know about them as well.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    You have mail. bacnet L-VIS actually works nice. I had an ALC guy putting together a project and he was raving about it. Apparently ALC has nothing close. To be honest nobody has something like LVIS.

    It has full AST, VNC server, email server, and has functionality for mathematical computation. And, the AST functions are seamless across the Loytec lineup. Not to forget really works. It's no dog.

  13. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by dapper View Post
    I was not aware that I could get your product either through you or more than one distributor. The last time that I inquired I was told only one distributor and not given the option to buy direct. I have used the L-VIS and was looking at the possibility of contacting you this week regarding a BACnet version.

    Let me know who the distributors are, e-mail in my profile.

    I have had no luck buying LON products direct, everyone wants a contract. If you know of open sources, let me know about them as well.
    A large part of demanding a contract is they want to sell to you all year, not just hit & miss, also they want a commitment so they know you will learn and understand the product so that you do not have to call tech support all the time.

    No I am not a distributor, I am a contractor that understands "why" they do it. Some charge more than others, some require higher volumes than others.

    Check out Lynxspring.com , reasonable sign-up & expected volumes.
    Intelli-Building = Less Stress, commissioned with diligence!

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