lennox G71 Vs G61
I think I am with in the guide lines. I have been searching in the forumn and can't find the answers to a few questions. So far the salesman have not been much help.
1) Which furnace or a different one all together? Is it worth the $582 to get the G71 over the G61 ?
2) The furnace and HWT now share the same 6 inch exhaust vent with only the new HWT using this vent does the vent need a liner?
3) The house is on metered water so do I need a Thermal Expansion tank and a back flow valve at the tank and or knock arrestors installed at the tank. We have had some pipe knock in the kitchen so will this help?
4) Should the gas shut off's on both the furnace line and HWT line be replaced.
Our house was built in 1984 making it about 24 years old. As far as we can tell it has the original Furnace ( Airco GS-80 ) and we have no age on the Hot Water tank but its at least 15-16 years old. The whole house is about 2200 sq ft with the main floor being about 1100. The upstairs is heated by electric heat. Our gas bills are $174 a month on the budget for heat and hot water. The house has a return air vent on the main floor and one on the second floor. There are 8 duct vents in various rooms on the main floor. we have no air conditioning, no venting to the top floor where the bedrooms are.
The furnace is nosey and about a year or two ago we had trouble keeping the pilot light lit. After about 3-4 service calls someone was able to keep it going. There answer then was to get a new furnace. Furnace is in the 4 foot crawl space.
At the moment we can receive several grants if we go to a 95% efficient furnace with the DC variable speed motor. ($1280 in grants). We need to pay $300 for a before and after house evaluation to be eligible as well. They look at all aspects of energy saving as well as the furnace.
We could buy a Lennox G71 for XXXX installed. Top of the residential Lennox line-up.
For $582 less we can get the G61 installed, second banana, I'm ok with that.
We have had three quotes all from salesman with different answers and methods. One connects using rubber membrane (sound break) another sheet metal only.
We get no grants for the HWT but its old and while they are there we could get it done. We would go from a 40 gal to a 50 gal so the jetted tub could now be used. At the moment the tank is in a metal tray with a hole in the floor. If the tank blows all the water goes into the crawl space where we have lots of stuff stored. While they are there we want them to connect to a drain so this doesn't happen.
With this furnace type we need a drain in the crawl space for condensation, which we don't have, or a pump. They say they will try to install a trap in existing plumbing near the furnace and it may or may not need a pump. We would like the HWT to connect to this as well.
Last edited by brian5000; 10-30-2008 at 04:43 PM.
To start with you may not be getting any grant money with the G61 if you need to meet the 95% or higher number, becasue I believe it is only 94%, so that may answer your question there. This is the G61 not the G61V, correct? I know my dad missed out on a tax credit becasue his new furnace was like 94.1% and he needed the next unit up to receive it. The credit would have paid for the difference. Keep stuff like that in mind. Does your crawl space have a poured floor, moisture problems, etc. and did one contractor talk about the furnace location/any potential issues more than another? I know my sister had her furnace in her crawl space and often wished she had opted for an extended warranty, as her service calls are often related to the crawl space conditions, and the install--at least according to the service technicans she is using now. Keep in mind I know nothing, just passing on some personal experience. These guys here will steer you right I am sure.
This is the G61V 95% only difference I'm told is the valve. Crawl space is all dry with a concrete floor. Heated by the furnace cause it isn't cold down there.
Oh ya the other thing they can not tell me is what the PVC vent will look like. How long out the side of the house, how high it will go etc?
If the G61v will do the job really well the $582 goes towards the water tank. The G61V might really be overkill beacuse I'm only heating 1100 sq ft. half the house.
Last edited by brian5000; 10-30-2008 at 03:49 PM.
Yeah, the 71 has the modulating gas valve, I got a quote on the G61V as well. Both are 95% but I think the gas valve increases its output by 1% increments in conjunction with the variable speed fan on the 71, instead of just set stages. I think I would put the differnece in money to use on the water tank myself, but I know from lurking here that there are professional members here that say the modulating Rheem/Ruud units are the cat's meow and the dog's bow-wow, and they would go with those over anything. So maybe they would feel the same about the modulating Lennox. I am anxious to see what type of replys you get from professional members. I am surprised the contractors didn't just take you outside and show you the approxiamte location of your vent, they did at my house, and we subsequently moved it a bit per my request. Ask them to show you. No sump pump unit you could drain into? Do they make shorty water heaters with power vents so you could move your HWT down by the furnace? Cool thread.
Unfortunately 3 salesman ( not furnace tecs) don't know the answers to these questions. The one guy says he has the G61V and his vent comes out the wall and up about 6 feet with an angled piece at the top to push any airflow out past the eves. They all wanted to vent out to the side where the sidewalk is where there is windows above. They all want pretty much want a blank piece of paper with my signiture on it and I would have to rely on them doing the job correctly. That's not going to happen.
When you lay the G61 or G71 on its side in a crawl space I wonder which way the gas valve is? Is nothing ever easy ?
"I like that Rheem has tested and found that the gas valve when laid in a horizontal application drags so they made a manifold to keep the gas valve upright, while the other guys use the same gas valve and "accept" the dragging as tollerable because it will only be a "managable few".
"These guys here will steer you right I am sure."
I guess you were wrong lobo11 no help what so ever.
never had any problem laying one on it side.
one big difference you want to look at between the 61 and 71 is the warranty.
when the 71 came out it became the "signiture series" and the warranty went down on the G61.
Originally Posted by t527ed
From my understanding the warrenties on the G71 and the G61 are all the same at the moment. 10 years parts and labour (coupon from Terasen gas etc which the saleman just laugh at, supposed to be worth $500). The part I find a little deceptive about this is the parts warrenty is with Lennox, the labour is through your installer. Your installer goes under you only get parts. There also seems to be enough wiggle room in these warrenities to make them almost invalid.
Did a little more digging its only one 70 btu G61V thats 95% G61mpv-36b-71
http://www.terasengas.com/Homes/Offe...adeCoupons.htm Click on View in the lennox row for there offer.
Last edited by brian5000; 10-31-2008 at 06:35 PM.
Reason: add link
standard lennox parts warranty is 10 years all parts on g71
5 years all parts on g61
lifetime heat exchanger on both units.
labor warranty is up to dealer unless you buy an extended warranty.
95% afue on the G61 mpv-***-71, -91 or -111
A little more info, " The design heat loss for your home is 48469"
Would this make a difference for picking the G71 over the G61.
I think I heard the first stage on the G61 is 43,000 BTU's where- as the G71 modulates between 25,000 and 60,000 ish?
The G71 smallest unit is 70,000 BTU's and the 95% efficient smallest with the G61 is 70,000 BTU's its like I almost need the G71 because the G61 is to big?
If it was my house I'd do the G71. Sounds like a perfect application for that furnace. It's going to run at 40% modulation a majority of the time which is a little lower than the G61V on 1st stage.
Originally Posted by heatingairman
Thank you..I've done some reading but its hard to figure out which is best.
I see in other threads they haven't mentioned the Honeywell PRO 4000 this is what was quoted. No air, no humid will this thermostat be ok.
I also need a condensation pump. My brother just had this furnace put in and with the cold weather (B.C. -8 to -12 ish) his line going outside the house froze. Shouldn't the installers been aware of this problem on installation and properly insulated it?