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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    California
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    325
    ALC works fine with lon. What's the problem?

  2. #28
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Quote Originally Posted by xarralu View Post
    What kind of interface are you referring to? What we use for an interface is a SLTA-10 to a LGR (router).
    There's the damning point right there. Please describe the part in detail where you use your LGR, how it's wired to the SLTA, how you are using that device designed in 1980 something to get information out.

    I can say the SLTA commissions great every time. It's just the part about getting consistent data from the ALC box... ain't really happening.

    Maybe somebody else was right on this forum when they said ALC was really behind technically. Why they aren't using modern methods, especially when you want potentially hundreds of variables available...

    Just about every manufacturer stinks at something. ALC stinks at getting information into a LON network. Since it's so simple to do.... (conclusion yours)

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Fort Worth\Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    1,706
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    There's the damning point right there. Please describe the part in detail where you use your LGR, how it's wired to the SLTA, how you are using that device designed in 1980 something to get information out.

    I can say the SLTA commissions great every time. It's just the part about getting consistent data from the ALC box... ain't really happening.

    Maybe somebody else was right on this forum when they said ALC was really behind technically. Why they aren't using modern methods, especially when you want potentially hundreds of variables available...

    Just about every manufacturer stinks at something. ALC stinks at getting information into a LON network. Since it's so simple to do.... (conclusion yours)
    I have to back Sysint up on this one. I have a job that is 4 years old with some ALC portals and SLTA's that I have never got working right to this day.

    Here is my original post on this job, and even know I said we finally figured it out, that was just one problem that actually got resolved.
    http://www.hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthr...hlight=portals
    Go Rangers!

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,343
    Quote Originally Posted by skwsproul View Post
    Yeah did that. The daytime warm up works like morning warmup. The vfd goes to 100% opening all boxes to warm the building quickly for a period of time than they go back to normal. I have no idea why you would do that in the middle of your occupied time.
    Being that I'm in San Diego, I can see why I wouldn't be needing a daytime warm up around here anytime soon. Morning warm up alone is rare.
    I'm curious though, I couldn't find anything about daytime warm up online... is this a Trane specific function?
    http://www.peci.org/ftguide/ftg/Syst..._9_Warm_up.htm

  5. #31
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    This jogs my memory.... Trane could have a enable daytime warmup if (I think) RA temp is not above X degrees. Possibly there is a setting or config for this. Don't they have plugins now for these? Anyway, this used to be a system setting.

    Anyway, in the north you have conditions where you are doing limited reset and you need to pop into heat mode on the unit because the perimeters are losing temp at min flow. Typically you see this where there isn't perimeter base or a lot of glass. I doubt you need that in San Diego.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    325
    I'll agree to this about the ALC Bacnet to lon It's slow and it an it's a pain. But sometime's you can't rip out all the existing lon controls on a newer system. That always comes in time.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
    Posts
    7,281
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    This jogs my memory.... Trane could have a enable daytime warmup if (I think) RA temp is not above X degrees. Possibly there is a setting or config for this. Don't they have plugins now for these? Anyway, this used to be a system setting.

    Anyway, in the north you have conditions where you are doing limited reset and you need to pop into heat mode on the unit because the perimeters are losing temp at min flow. Typically you see this where there isn't perimeter base or a lot of glass. I doubt you need that in San Diego.
    Sysint,

    I believe you are correct? I had a job about 2 years ago where the hot water re-heat was sized marginally at best and during low ambient conditions, with a high volume of outside air entering (surgical center) it did need a second or more; go around of warm-up.....

    Band aid on a stab wound approach, but it worked without reinventing the wheel

    I used VAV terminal load, "if" all/majority were calling above 75%? there abouts, I gave it another warm up.

    I also stepped away from the spec'ed 55* constant DA and would start to reset upwards "if" the average terminal load went above 50%? or so, still adhering to outside air minimums and space pressure set-points....

    Still works great, not one complaint

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,343
    Back to skwsproul's post in response to Dowadudda - "how often do you guys run into a situation where one can not get the two different devices integrated?"
    In this case, a programmable controller has to take care of the logic for commanding the hw VAVs to the desired mode. The Trane unit won't do it, so in this case most likely an XL50 or 500 would be in place at the middle to achieve the translation.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
    Posts
    7,281
    Quote Originally Posted by digo View Post
    Back to skwsproul's post in response to Dowadudda - "how often do you guys run into a situation where one can not get the two different devices integrated?"
    In this case, a programmable controller has to take care of the logic for commanding the hw VAVs to the desired mode. The Trane unit won't do it, so in this case most likely an XL50 or 500 would be in place at the middle to achieve the translation.
    IMO all to often there is a need for something in the middle, just seems to be the nature of an integration, I don't see plug and play as obtainable,,, I believe that's someones signature, but it could not be more true...

  10. #36
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Worthingt View Post
    .....I believe you are correct? I had a job about 2 years ago where the hot water re-heat was sized marginally at best and during low ambient conditions, with a high volume of outside air entering (surgical center) it did need a second or more; go around of warm-up .....
    Can you imagine that scenario with -20F outside air? Or even something less drastic like -20F outside pulling in mins to VAV zones and the exteriors still losing temps at design mins? This is why Trane has this feature. Even on their VVT they had this SA Tempering setting. Much cheaper to fire off the main unit with gas heat then have all the electric reheats cranking away. Let's face it you need this type of thing when you are doing very cost limited VAV and VVT applications.

    Anyway, these features may be hiding in their "unknown" variables they have (the ones they don't document).

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Worthingt View Post
    IMO all to often there is a need for something in the middle, just seems to be the nature of an integration, I don't see plug and play as obtainable,,, I believe that's someones signature, but it could not be more true...
    And you and I can both agree, a JACE in the middle fits very well

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
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    Quote Originally Posted by digo View Post
    And you and I can both agree, a JACE in the middle fits very well
    Of course

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
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    7,281
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    Can you imagine that scenario with -20F outside air? Or even something less drastic like -20F outside pulling in mins to VAV zones and the exteriors still losing temps at design mins? This is why Trane has this feature. Even on their VVT they had this SA Tempering setting. Much cheaper to fire off the main unit with gas heat then have all the electric reheats cranking away. Let's face it you need this type of thing when you are doing very cost limited VAV and VVT applications.

    Anyway, these features may be hiding in their "unknown" variables they have (the ones they don't document).
    Now your entering into territory that I always seem to get shot down on and one of the reasons I am leaving PA.

    I have never understood why anyone would consider it beneficial to maintain any constant, when all the variables are constantly changing, who cares if its a VVT or a VAV, the load is what it is and so is the most cost effective means to maintain it....

    Why are some folks in some states so freaking stuck in their thinking???

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