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  1. #1

    goodman vs. bryant or carrier Heat Pump/ac

    any thoughts or expierence with these brands - Ive heard different things depending on who uses what brand

  2. #2
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    Its not what kind of equipment you buy....it's how well the equipment is installed...equipment is equipment
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  3. #3

    Talking kind of equipment

    I am far from a professional in terms of doing hvac for a living but I can speak from experience that would validate what you have been told. However, I am a licensed HVAC technician and have installed several systems myself. I have a special certification in indoor air quality. However, I must admit that I am still a neophyte compared to the heavy weight experts on this site (some of which have in excess of 40 years experience).

    What I am about to say has been echoed from every publication I have ever read: installation matters more than brand. Here in the DC area, we have Washington Checkbook which rates contractors in terms of quality (and price). Angies list is another (I am relatively certain it is nationwide). Look them up on the internet if you are interested.

    I think most would agree that Bryant/Carrier are superb systems assuming they are properly installed particularly the Evolution/Infinity line. I did over a year of research before I installed my first Carrier Infinity system. I am convinced it is the best system on the market at any price. I think most would agree that Trane/American Standard systems are good as well but Carrier has the edge with humidity control and overall ease of programming/seamless operation. There are hundreds of testimonials from satisfied owners of Carrier Infinity systems on this site alone. You can certainly find more. Perhaps in your neighborhood! The system has over 41 separate patents. Truly a marvel of engineering.

    I have had two homes in the last 10 years. In both of them, I installed Carrier Infinity systems. The first was a gas heat/electric AC. Most recently, I installed 2 hybrid heat systems-Carrier Infinity with the Infinity air purifiers and large fan powered humidifiers. The infinity control (optional with all but the very top end systems) I would strongly recommend. I did not get the very highest AFUE furnace since Northern VA/DC area does not have exceptionally cold winters. It was not cost effective for our climate here. In any case, you may want to spring for the higher AFUE Carrier Infinity furnace(s): the infinity 96 or the ICS just based on how quiet they are. They are markedly quieter than what I purchased and the Infinity ICS is virtually silent. However, they both require special venting with PVC pipe. I was unable to justify the additional cost with the special venting but God knows I can still wish. lol ; - )


    Regardless, I cannot say enough positive about Carrier Infinity systems. I am certain you would be more than pleased (assuming a good installation--with special attention to duct-work adequacy) No matter who does your system, I would insist on a load calculation (ideally have your ductwork sized properly too). You can do your own load calculation for about $50.00 if you wish. I did mine and it helped me jointly decide with my contractor what size was best. Bryant systems are the same animal with a different label and slightly different case/paint. In general, according to what I have been told, Bryant is slightly less expensive. They call their top end systems "Evolution" instead of Infinity. Bryant is actually made by Carrier and has different patents but they are essentially the same equipment relabeled.

    Whatever you do, I would get the highest SEER/AFUE you can afford just below the top top of the line and definitely get variable speed. Gas isn't getting any cheaper and neither is electricity. As such, a hybrid heat system would be really good for almost any climate. A hybrid heat system will automatically shift between heat pump heating and gas (or oil or hydronic) depending on the outdoor temperature and the heat load of your house. A heat pump can heat your home at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of gas. But, it loses its ability to effectively transfer heat from the outdoors as the temperature goes much below 25-35 or so. From a cost standpoint, using a heat pump instead of gas would be advisable until you reach the balance point of your home which is generally 25-37 degrees or so. It is at this point that your gas furnace (or other heat source) would take over. Also, heat pumps have advanced light years from the 70's and 80's during which time everyone complained that they blew cold air. Not so with the Carrier Infinity. It has remarkable "comfort heat technology" which automatically adjusts the fan speed and compressor stage to prevent drafty cooler air noted by older heat pump owners. The only caveat is the system isn't particularly cheap. However, there is a large rebate from Carrier until the end of this month and you may be eligible for another through your utility or state. This would bring the cost down to very competitive with mid-high to high end systems with other manufacturers. Conclusion: It is worth the money if it is within your means to spring for this incredible system.

    Hope this helps. The pros on this site are superb. I am sure they would echo my sentiments. Good luck.

  4. #4
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    Let's assume for a moment that you can find a company that will install any of the 3 brands you've mentioned. (Our company could offer 2 out of the 3). Which brand would you choose? Which one would they recommend? Comparing Goodman with Carrier/Bryant is kind of like comparing a Chevy with a Lexus. Both have their attributes and both will get the job done if assembled and maintained properly. But the Lexus most would agree is built a little tougher, has more creature comforts and costs more. You expect to get a manufacturer's warranty with both cars but with one you have a higher expectation of not having any problems. Goodman is a great product if installed properly. Carrier and Bryant are comparable as they're almost identical units outdoors and are the exact same units indoors. Either Carrier or Bryant can give you all kinds of trouble is installed improperly or superb comfort if installed properly. So.... I've included a little attachment to help you find a good company.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    If YOU want change, YOU have to first change.

    If you are waiting for the 'other guy' to change first, just remember, you're the 'other guy's' other guy. To continue to expect real change when you keep acting the same way as always, is folly. Won't happen. Real change will only happen when a majority of the people change the way they vote!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacsaavyhmownr View Post
    I am far from a professional in terms of doing hvac for a living but I can speak from experience that would validate what you have been told. However, I am a licensed HVAC technician and have installed several systems myself. I have a special certification in indoor air quality. However, I must admit that I am still a neophyte compared to the heavy weight experts on this site (some of which have in excess of 40 years experience).

    What I am about to say has been echoed from every publication I have ever read: installation matters more than brand. Here in the DC area, we have Washington Checkbook which rates contractors in terms of quality (and price). Angies list is another (I am relatively certain it is nationwide). Look them up on the internet if you are interested.

    I think most would agree that Bryant/Carrier are superb systems assuming they are properly installed particularly the Evolution/Infinity line. I did over a year of research before I installed my first Carrier Infinity system. I am convinced it is the best system on the market at any price. I think most would agree that Trane/American Standard systems are good as well but Carrier has the edge with humidity control and overall ease of programming/seamless operation. There are hundreds of testimonials from satisfied owners of Carrier Infinity systems on this site alone. You can certainly find more. Perhaps in your neighborhood! The system has over 41 separate patents. Truly a marvel of engineering.

    I have had two homes in the last 10 years. In both of them, I installed Carrier Infinity systems. The first was a gas heat/electric AC. Most recently, I installed 2 hybrid heat systems-Carrier Infinity with the Infinity air purifiers and large fan powered humidifiers. The infinity control (optional with all but the very top end systems) I would strongly recommend. I did not get the very highest AFUE furnace since Northern VA/DC area does not have exceptionally cold winters. It was not cost effective for our climate here. In any case, you may want to spring for the higher AFUE Carrier Infinity furnace(s): the infinity 96 or the ICS just based on how quiet they are. They are markedly quieter than what I purchased and the Infinity ICS is virtually silent. However, they both require special venting with PVC pipe. I was unable to justify the additional cost with the special venting but God knows I can still wish. lol ; - )


    Regardless, I cannot say enough positive about Carrier Infinity systems. I am certain you would be more than pleased (assuming a good installation--with special attention to duct-work adequacy) No matter who does your system, I would insist on a load calculation (ideally have your ductwork sized properly too). You can do your own load calculation for about $50.00 if you wish. I did mine and it helped me jointly decide with my contractor what size was best. Bryant systems are the same animal with a different label and slightly different case/paint. In general, according to what I have been told, Bryant is slightly less expensive. They call their top end systems "Evolution" instead of Infinity. Bryant is actually made by Carrier and has different patents but they are essentially the same equipment relabeled.

    Whatever you do, I would get the highest SEER/AFUE you can afford just below the top top of the line and definitely get variable speed. Gas isn't getting any cheaper and neither is electricity. As such, a hybrid heat system would be really good for almost any climate. A hybrid heat system will automatically shift between heat pump heating and gas (or oil or hydronic) depending on the outdoor temperature and the heat load of your house. A heat pump can heat your home at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of gas. But, it loses its ability to effectively transfer heat from the outdoors as the temperature goes much below 25-35 or so. From a cost standpoint, using a heat pump instead of gas would be advisable until you reach the balance point of your home which is generally 25-37 degrees or so. It is at this point that your gas furnace (or other heat source) would take over. Also, heat pumps have advanced light years from the 70's and 80's during which time everyone complained that they blew cold air. Not so with the Carrier Infinity. It has remarkable "comfort heat technology" which automatically adjusts the fan speed and compressor stage to prevent drafty cooler air noted by older heat pump owners. The only caveat is the system isn't particularly cheap. However, there is a large rebate from Carrier until the end of this month and you may be eligible for another through your utility or state. This would bring the cost down to very competitive with mid-high to high end systems with other manufacturers. Conclusion: It is worth the money if it is within your means to spring for this incredible system.

    Hope this helps. The pros on this site are superb. I am sure they would echo my sentiments. Good luck.
    So you like the Carrier Infinity System then???
    I need a new signature.....

  6. #6
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    It has remarkable "comfort heat technology" which automatically adjusts the fan speed and compressor stage to prevent drafty cooler air noted by older heat pump owners.
    Is it efficienct when it does that?

  7. #7

    Hmm Efficient?

    Well, I am not a mechanical engineer. But I would say this: probably less efficient. But if it is very uncomfortable ("cold blow"), but slightly more efficient, who the hell would want it?

    I think the Carrier engineers are pretty smart fellas. Many people shy away from HP's because of the "cold blow" reputation that they once had. I know I was skeptical. Hmmmh, I said to myself. Dunno about that. A heat pump?

    You guys are the pros. That's irrefutable. I just know that I am happy with my system and the peeps that put it in did a fine job. I am a duct work do do. That's why I had them do it. So to answer the aforementioned question my Mr I bend metal, I am elated with my system...Carrier Infinity. I am sure you know how to duct things right. I sure don't.

    I also know that I once had a Goodman system of 3.5 tons and a POS Goodman furnace to match. After seven years, the thing had a cracked heat exchanger on the furnace and the compressor went to compressor heaven on the outdoor unit with a bad valve (likely...since it had low liquid pressure and high suction pressure?) Now, maybe the dude that originally installed it didn't pull a good vacuum on it. Moisture was in there and mixed with the oil and effed things up. I know for a fact it didn't have a filter dryer on it. The outdoor unit sounded like a freight train. Most manufacturers use copeland scrolls now so I wouldn't fault Goodman for the bad compressor because they do go bad sometimes. But the heat exchanger? Cracked after 7 years? Come on.
    Last edited by hvacsaavyhmownr; 10-25-2008 at 09:41 PM. Reason: ?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacsaavyhmownr View Post
    But the heat exchanger? Cracked after 7 years? Come on.

    Carrier's are notorious for cracked heat exchangers....

    Then again....I find cracked HX's every day.....in every system.....

    Carrier makes a good system....but there are many systems that can be put together and installed properly that will perform just as well....
    I need a new signature.....

  9. #9
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    Comparable features and benefits (efficiency etc.) on equipment that is comparably installed by a professional HVAC company will give comparable performance no matter what the brand.

    All brands have had issues with certain models of equipment or certain components, many times the same component used on multiple brands.

    The better brand in one area may not be a good brand in another area depending on the support of the HVAC distributor supplying that brand to contractors.

    It is the overall system installation that makes the difference. In the end, the contractor must complete the manufacturing of the system in your home. So in the end, the contractor is the brand of system you will have.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacsaavyhmownr View Post
    I wouldn't fault Goodman for the bad compressor because they do go bad sometimes. But the heat exchanger? Cracked after 7 years? Come on.
    Check out the class action law suit against Carrier for bad heat exchangers.


    The Carrier Infinity with Infinity control is probably the best all around system.

    Now compare a Carrier ABA to any other brands builer grade.
    Nothing special.

    Not everybody that gets a Carrier gets the high end unit.

    And depending which Infinity you have. It has a Bristol TS recip compressor.
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  11. #11
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    since we have concluded that carrier and goodman have thier faults

    the guy should buy a trane
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacsaavyhmownr View Post
    Well, I am not a mechanical engineer. But I would say this: probably less efficient. But if it is very uncomfortable ("cold blow"), but slightly more efficient, who the hell would want it?

    I think the Carrier engineers are pretty smart fellas. Many people shy away from HP's because of the "cold blow" reputation that they once had. I know I was skeptical. Hmmmh, I said to myself. Dunno about that. A heat pump?

    You guys are the pros. That's irrefutable. I just know that I am happy with my system and the peeps that put it in did a fine job. I am a duct work do do. That's why I had them do it. So to answer the aforementioned question my Mr I bend metal, I am elated with my system...Carrier Infinity. I am sure you know how to duct things right. I sure don't.

    I also know that I once had a Goodman system of 3.5 tons and a POS Goodman furnace to match. After seven years, the thing had a cracked heat exchanger on the furnace and the compressor went to compressor heaven on the outdoor unit with a bad valve (likely...since it had low liquid pressure and high suction pressure?) Now, maybe the dude that originally installed it didn't pull a good vacuum on it. Moisture was in there and mixed with the oil and effed things up. I know for a fact it didn't have a filter dryer on it. The outdoor unit sounded like a freight train. Most manufacturers use copeland scrolls now so I wouldn't fault Goodman for the bad compressor because they do go bad sometimes. But the heat exchanger? Cracked after 7 years? Come on.
    With your having had a good experience with Carrier and a bad experience with Goodman, I can understand your personal feelings. However, your feelings are based on specific personal experiences and not overall data.

    As mentioned, Carrier has a class action law suit against them for failed heat exchangers. This is not the same failure that Goodman heat exchangers had. Carrier still uses the same design heat exchanger that Goodman (along with other manufacturers) had with that style of heat exchanger.

    A major difference in brands having problems is how they deal with their problems. When York had recent problems with heat exchangers, York recalled all of those furnaces and designed a program to help those consumers who had those furnaces. When Goodman realized what was causing the problems with their heat exchangers (which had to have had overtemperature issues to fail) Goodman designed a program to help consumers who had those furnaces. When Carrier's heat exchangers failed, Carrier decided to deny any problems and continues to fight against those who have failed Carrier furnaces.

    All equipment is prone to failure. It is how manufacturers deal with errors that makes one better then another.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacsaavyhmownr View Post
    I think the Carrier engineers are pretty smart fellas.

    Quote Originally Posted by I_bend_metal View Post
    Carrier's are notorious for cracked heat exchangers....
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Check out the class action law suit against Carrier for bad heat exchangers.

    Yep pretty smart fellers.
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