Predator Integrated Into JACE 600?

[jogas]

Is it possible to easily integrate a Staefa Predator (LON), originally tied to a Talon R2, into an AX JACE 600?
TIA,
jogas

[NINAX]

Is it possible to easily integrate a Staefa Predator (LON), originally tied to a Talon R2, into an AX JACE 600?
TIA,
jogas

Should be no problem.
The Staefa 'wizard' on AX is just a donk graphic. I could send you one if you would like it.

[jogas]

Should be no problem.
The Staefa 'wizard' on AX is just a donk graphic. I could send you one if you would like it.

Please do.
Thanks.
jogas

[d ward]

If it's commisioned R2 can't you just find it and learn points? It was easier for me to commision Steafa in R2 than AX, but things may have changed in the last year.

[jogas]

If it's commisioned R2 can't you just find it and learn points? It was easier for me to commision Steafa in R2 than AX, but things may have changed in the last year.

I'm hoping that is the case.
At this point, I'm gathering info on what is possible.
Job has not started yet.
Thanks for the reply.

[d ward]

I just talked to one of my former co-workers last week if you have issues I can quiz him. I got out as my old company was getting into AX. What controller is it ?

[jogas]

I just talked to one of my former co-workers last week if you have issues I can quiz him. I got out as my old company was getting into AX. What controller is it ?

4 Loop Predator installed 2-3 (?) years ago onto a Talon R2.
Thank you.

[d ward]

That should not be too bad if you can just upload then the loops (PIDS) will be there you will have to recreate the programming. All they are is 4 PID's. Hope you have some idea as to what it was controlling and how. I guess I am assuming that the tech tuned loops at the card level.

[jogas]

That should not be too bad if you can just upload then the loops (PIDS) will be there you will have to recreate the programming. All they are is 4 PID's. Hope you have some idea as to what it was controlling and how. I guess I am assuming that the tech tuned loops at the card level.

As I understand, the Predators are just I/O with no Loops used.

[d ward]

That is not true. The 4 Loop as the name indicates has 4 built in PID's If the loops are not set up then they can be used as I/O, I can't remember pricing to know if they would have done that (used as I/O). This is from memory but I believe Loop 1 is very slow acting and hard to tune, Loops 2,3 are easy to tune so I always used them for DX, heat, loop 4 is very slow and hard to tune so I used it for MA and programmed around it.
Don't bank on that check the Steafa site, or let me know.

[jogas]

That is not true. The 4 Loop as the name indicates has 4 built in PID's If the loops are not set up then they can be used as I/O, I can't remember pricing to know if they would have done that (used as I/O). This is from memory but I believe Loop 1 is very slow acting and hard to tune, Loops 2,3 are easy to tune so I always used them for DX, heat, loop 4 is very slow and hard to tune so I used it for MA and programmed around it.
Don't bank on that check the Steafa site, or let me know.

I apologize for not being clear.
I know the Predators have 4 Loops, but the Loops are not being used in this application. The Predators are being used for I/O purposes only.

[GregF]

jogas

You have to be careful when you are using AX 3.0 or >. However since your four loops were done in R2 there will be no problems, unless you add a new one.
The four loop works well as a pid controller or dumb I/O.

G

[NINAX]

jogas

You have to be careful when you are using AX 3.0 or >. However since your four loops were done in R2 there will be no problems, unless you add a new one.
The four loop works well as a pid controller or dumb I/O.

G

Are you referring to, if memory serves, the timing issue when using a Staefa device from the palette? Fix 1 being an additional slot added, Fix 2 being add a dynamic device instead of Staefa device?

And just for general consumption, AX is 3.0 and up.

[GregF]

NINAX

Not that, the lmnl files in 3.0 and up are not right. Staefa says that it is a Tridium problem, its not, Staefa did not keep up with the Lon world so there is a real problem with this line. If you commission a new Four Loop on AX 3.0 and up it will most likely eat the app. Making the controller no good. The best way for the Four Loop is to commission in R2 first. Once it has been commissioned the problem goes away. The rest of the line (Except for VAV104s) is another can of worms and requires a real understanding of Tridium/Lon. All of this can be worked around.

Greg

[GregF]

Let me add that if you upgrade from R2 to AX 3.0 and up, the lnml files won't match up with the controllers. This dose not hold true with the new controllers, just the older ones. There is a way to fix this, but you have to be careful or you are going to reflash the controllers with the old image files to the new one.

G

[jogas]

Let me add that if you upgrade from R2 to AX 3.0 and up, the lnml files won't match up with the controllers. This dose not hold true with the new controllers, just the older ones. There is a way to fix this, but you have to be careful or you are going to reflash the controllers with the old image files to the new one.

G

Could you please expand on your reply.
My intent is to use the AX V3.3.22 LON Device/Point Managers to discover the existing Predator points and bring them into the AX JACE via Lon driver. I do not want to change anything in the Predators.
Will AX cause the INML file problems you describe?
Thanks.
jogas

[GregF]

jogas

Its not the AX or the lmnl file its the Predator. From what you posted th four loop controllers have been commissioned in R2, this makes the problem go away. You should not have any problems at this point and this works with most of the line, unless its version one. However the vav102s are a real problem if you upgrade from R2 to AX (AX version 3.0 and up). It can be fixed without reflashing the controllers (102s).
Just did not want you to go through what I have.

G

[jogas]

jogas

Its not the AX or the lmnl file its the Predator. From what you posted th four loop controllers have been commissioned in R2, this makes the problem go away. You should not have any problems at this point and this works with most of the line, unless its version one. However the vav102s are a real problem if you upgrade from R2 to AX (AX version 3.0 and up). It can be fixed without reflashing the controllers (102s).
Just did not want you to go through what I have.

G

Greg,
Thanks for the clarification. I'm feeling a lot better about this part of the job now.
The next interesting part of the job will be the JCI N2 integration, but that's another topic.
again, many thanks.
jogas

[irbeerman]

Actually it is a problem with both the Predator Controller and the way Tridium does their LON commisioning within AX and R2. The Predator issue has been resovled, all of them have been re-worked and now the problem won't occur. Just look for the V4 on the UPC symbol.
But if you are using another manufacturer this problem may occur. The reason for this is because Tridium writes to the Lon nodes to fast and doesn't allow the device to reset. Depending on what version of the Echelon library the application was built on would determine if the problem may occur. Anything that has been built on Echelon library 10 or greater, would have this problem.
In R2 there was a work around for this that resolved the issue, but this work around didn't work within AX. This is why it seems that it works in R2, but the reality of it is it will work until the user commisions the device and then the problem may occur.
Tridium has fixed alot of LON issue within 3.3.22, which was previously blamed on Lon wiring.