Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 27 to 39 of 44
  1. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    949
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    OK Ninax-- Let's start here:

    Quote:
    Additionally, when you look at IP852 from my perspective, I would want to be able to analyze the networks remotely, and you cannot do that stringing JACE boxes together.
    You state: "Uniformed Loytec BS."

    I have one of the largest Tridium contractors in the country that is also an authorized training facility that asked about the ability for full protocol analyzation ability and how to accomplish this. So, I guess that's Tridium contractor BS to you?

    For a fact with Loytec products I can analyze any number of networks from my office top to bottom utilizing IP852 because Loytec can analyze FT-10 traffic on the backside of their equipment. Tell me how you completely analyze LON packets through multiple JACE boxes if you are such a smart guy. I'd love to hear it because this contractor I have alot of respect for is indicating they can't do it.

    Further, Loytec also has Redundant routing capability. So, you can have a 100% redundant FT-10 network with 100% redundant routing/redirection and get network statistical data. How do you do that with Tridium JACE boxes?
    You're the smartest guy sysint.
    You're here telling everyone about the advantages and disadvantages of the products you're familiar with, and try to imply the same expertise to the Tridium product which you are WAY behind the curve on. You're trying to do the old smoke and mirror trick. You're trying to mis-lead everyone about the importance of any one item.

    Who gives a sh!t about you LON IP? Besides you. You need it, I don't. You need it because you're operating in a much more restrictive 'box' environment. Trid boxes operate outside of your 'box', way outside. Don't be so sure of the LON device count that you tossed out earlier either.

    You know it, and you hate it. That's why you try to trash AX so much. It must be hurting Loytec's bottom line, or you've been tasked with growth and this is your strategy.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,330
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    There's no USB port on a JACE so for IP852 does it utilize the Echelon config server or does it have it's own implementation?

    Anyway, how many ASC LON controllers can you dump into the JACE 6?
    The JACE-6 does have one USB port - uses yet to be determined.
    as far as node count - the JACE6 can have up to 2 LON interfaces, which should yield a maximum of 127 nodes per interface (with an ft-10 router)
    So, the answer is 254 nodes out of one JACE6 box (max heap recommended).

  3. #29
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    NINAX -If that is the case why am I asking questions?
    I got a customer asking what we got to help him out and I'm investigating.

    Anyway, when it comes down to it, Loytec has bacnet and LON routing, display and server products with full AST functionality and graphical display capability. They also will very soon take care of a couple more popular protocols. They also can have full protocol analyzation of the LON trunk.

    "Don't be so sure of the LON device count that you tossed out earlier either." I'm only going off what I was told and what was posted here.

    "You need it because you're operating in a much more restrictive 'box' environment." How do you figure that? The only thing LON side Tridium does that Loytec doesn't is encase a network commissioning/creation tool. Right?

    My only concern with Tridium is the additional "framework". Alot of the industry has been using OPC and it works just fine. So, why would you put the additional framework? I think because in smaller networks you can have multiple protocols dumping into a single box. Tridium is great at that and I give them credit for it. They do a nice job with it.
    Last edited by sysint; 10-22-2008 at 11:52 AM.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Quote Originally Posted by digo View Post
    The JACE-6 does have one USB port - uses yet to be determined.
    as far as node count - the JACE6 can have up to 2 LON interfaces, which should yield a maximum of 127 nodes per interface (with an ft-10 router)
    So, the answer is 254 nodes out of one JACE6 box (max heap recommended).
    OK. That's far more than previously mentioned. So, you can use a FT-10 router or switch downstream. You actually mean 126 devices. Your JACE is number 127 always, right?

    Anyway, the question is back to can you take this USB port on the JACE-6, implement IP852 routing and utlize IP routers for full protocol analyzation? Sounds like maybe yes.

    So, if I wanted to do some serious LON networking I could implement a soft JACE on some high-powered machine and utilize IP852 routing?

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,330
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    Additionally, when you look at IP852 from my perspective, I would want to be able to analyze the networks remotely, and you cannot do that stringing JACE boxes together.
    We have a school district comprised of 16 schools (3 JACE 403s - done last year, and 13 JACE6s finished this summer). I can remotely analyze the network traffic on any of these sites. Supervisor PC sits at district office with fox tunneling enabled. I can get in to every site from a single IP address. The built-in Lon Utilities Manager may not be a full blown analyzer, but just by looking at crc errors for each device, it's easy to spot where the trouble is.
    Each JACE has an average of 50 ASCs (some JACE6 with 2 lon cards, 100+ devices).

  6. #32
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Thanks. I guess this customer I'm dealing with wants the ability for full analyzation in this instance.

    I have no idea if this is a specific job requirement or not. But apparently they are unable to do so with their infrastructure which I would think is no different than your own.

    I think in multiple buildings like this Tridium does fairly good. The alternative is routing, but what is the cost difference? Maybe not worth it.

    EDIT-- This is my opinion, but I'm not pushing product to Tridium guys just because. If it doesn't make sense why do it? Which is what I basically asked this contractor because they were really looking for full analyzation. I was asking why they didn't but protocol analyzation software for their FT-10 NIC's and call it a day... but apparently there is some issue with this.
    Last edited by sysint; 10-22-2008 at 12:28 PM.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,330
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    OK. That's far more than previously mentioned. So, you can use a FT-10 router or switch downstream. You actually mean 126 devices. Your JACE is number 127 always, right?
    The node id is set to 127 by default, but I believe 64+64-1(JACE)-2(router) = 125 total. So I guess the limit would be 63 devices on a segment without the jace, and 62 devices on the segment where the JACE resides. The remaining 2 would be used up by the router.

    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    Anyway, the question is back to can you take this USB port on the JACE-6, implement IP852 routing and utlize IP routers for full protocol analyzation? Sounds like maybe yes.
    A JACE2/6 already has 2 ethernet ports both of which can be used for IP852. The lonip option must be licensed. I do not think you'd use the USB port as a host for an additional interface. At this time the port is unused.

    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    So, if I wanted to do some serious LON networking I could implement a soft JACE on some high-powered machine and utilize IP852 routing?
    I don't see why not.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    479
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    So, if I wanted to do some serious LON networking I could implement a soft JACE on some high-powered machine and utilize IP852 routing?
    Since a softJACE can't be licensed for fieldbus drivers, including LON FTT-10, this actually sounds like a great way to get LON into a softJACE (assuming, of course, that the softJACE can be licensed for such, as it can for other IP-interfaced drivers, like MODbus TCP and BACnet/IP). Tridium does not provide IP/LON routers themselves, so this sounds like the spot where Loytec would complement the Tridium architecture. That doesn't seem so threatening...

  9. #35
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Yep. Sounds like a nice application because you get the analyzation capability, the huge throughput of IP852, and it's no big deal to use IP852 or bacnet/IP displays or even bacnet or LON routers. I have to research this further no doubt.

    EDIT: Dave and Digo -- if you don't mind I think it's email time if OK. Ninax, I still like you but consider taking your foot off the throttle once... When I stop to see you I'll buy lunch...

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
    Posts
    7,281
    sysint,

    Sorry I don't have that much time right now to join into this conversation, relocating back to MD to work with codewriter again.....

    Busy working here and there, packing, moving, etc...

    Trying to make sure all is behaving on here from time to time

    But,,, do you have the docs on the Trid stuff??? A lot of the stuff you are asking about can be found in there.

    Chris

  11. #37
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Chris-- I tried to call that codewriting bum to set a visit.... no response yet. Anyway, I've got nothing, but rather than get the kool-aid I post here.
    I'll touch base with you and when I stop and see you guys no soup for Codewriter!

  12. #38
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Quote Originally Posted by digo View Post
    A JACE2/6 already has 2 ethernet ports both of which can be used for IP852. The lonip option must be licensed. I do not think you'd use the USB port as a host for an additional interface. At this time the port is unused....I don't see why not.
    Loytec offers the IP852 USB NIC. That way any protocol analyzation can run through that registration instead of licensing the software on a specific machine where it's stuck. That's why I ask about the USB NIC. Further, why do you need to license LON/IP? I'm wondering if you can't simply use the IP852 NIC and Loytec servers. You would use the Loytec CS built-into the router. I wonder if the JACE would not be able to distinguish this between a regular FT-10 interface... Hmmm. Maybe a loophole?

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
    Posts
    7,281
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    Chris-- I tried to call that codewriting bum to set a visit.... no response yet. Anyway, I've got nothing, but rather than get the kool-aid I post here.
    I'll touch base with you and when I stop and see you guys no soup for Codewriter!
    If your coming to PA to see me, I wont be here !! I will be there, But,,, I would like a lunch

    Code is just swamped right now, My contact info here will soon be changing, maybe after that we can get something worked out???

    I'll IM him now,,, I think its funny

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event