Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 14 to 26 of 44
  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    949
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    ...what's an ilon?
    The 46th 'word' in your original post.

    I believe that response supports my point.
    Not served per your plan?

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    486
    Not sure why the heavy-duty suspicion...maybe I'm too clueless to have ever seen a hidden agenda from sysint...but anyway, my two cents:

    As far as I can determine, the LON capacity of the box depends entirely on available resources, just as any integration in the box does. Now, it's still a foggy area exactly how Tridium handles memory management, as Ninax can testify that two disparately-priced JACE models can show vastly different abilities when certain memory stacks are compared ("heap" vs. available RAM) - the whole point is that "available resources" is a very nebulous term.

    There's nothing in my experience that indicates that a JACE would have any problem handling IP852, if it had enough memory to function normally (some JACE models seem, well, underpowered...but there's a couple kickin' models that handle anything you can throw at them - I'd have no problem experimenting with IP852 on a JACE6 (with or without expanded memory) or a JACE-NXS).

  3. #16
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    There's no USB port on a JACE so for IP852 does it utilize the Echelon config server or does it have it's own implementation?

    Anyway, how many ASC LON controllers can you dump into the JACE 6?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    486
    .
    Last edited by davem; 10-22-2008 at 01:13 AM. Reason: Must have posted before I was done editing...

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    486
    The JACE NXS has four USB ports...(and they actually work - I've used them with serial-port hubs to expand this particular model to 4 additional serial ports)
    (and I'm going to have to brush up on IP852 - I think I'm confused on its implementation - I thought it was LON-over-IP, and I don't know anything else about it...)

    I haven't done any large LON jobs with a JACE-6 - the biggest I've done is 40 or so; but I have no doubt that Ninax or Chris W. have some examples of some larger jobs using a JACE 6 (or WEBS-600, or FX-60, or whichever brand they use). However, I do have 75 devices on an original model JACE-545, with the same RAM as the base 600, but with only 1/4 the flash memory of a 600.
    How the memory relates to how much stuff you can cram into a JACE is something I've never been able to put my finger on. It's really the processor that seems to impart the most horsepower to a JACE - the 600's 524Mhz PowerPC processor is smokin' compared to the 250Mhz RISC processor used on some of the older models; the 650Mhz Celeron in the NXS is why I like it so much.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Thanks. It seems like you need Big JACE to consider handling IP852. However, if you are maxing out at 60 nodes than IP852 still doesn't help you because you cannot process data from a couple hundred nodes (or more) in a single JACE.

    Typically I see a Neuron based FT-10 connection on a JACE. I had thought this was a bottleneck for data as you only get so many packets/second through it. Move to IP-852 connections and that changes dramatically. A competitor to Tridium utilizes Loytec IP852 NICS (which are capable of parallel processing up to 8 MNI's-- 8 LNS DB's) and you start to understand the capacity. This competitor's box also can also use multiple IP852 NIC's. The other nice thing about this is that they can use their protocol analyzer from their desk to view all channels on the network(s).
    Last edited by sysint; 10-22-2008 at 08:17 AM.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    949
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    Thanks. It seems like you need Big JACE to consider handling IP852. However, if you are maxing out at 60 nodes than IP852 still doesn't help you because you cannot process data from a couple hundred nodes (or more) in a single JACE.
    Really? /
    Wow, amazing what you can learn here. /

  8. #21
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    Ninax - It seems that they size the JACE based on FT-10 capacity. Wouldn't you agree? If you look at IP852 and you can run parallel one NIC handles 8 DB's. So, with the increased throughput you probably could deal with 1600 nodes to a server fairly easily.

    I'm not knocking the Tridium design. What they are saying is that instead of IP852 they essentially want to be the routing agent. In a large network this is a potential weakness. Maybe this is why a soft JACE exists? They could put that maybe on a high powered machine and implement IP852.

  9. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    Ninax - It seems that they size the JACE based on FT-10 capacity. Wouldn't you agree? If you look at IP852 and you can run parallel one NIC handles 8 DB's. So, with the increased throughput you probably could deal with 1600 nodes to a server fairly easily.

    I'm not knocking the Tridium design. What they are saying is that instead of IP852 they essentially want to be the routing agent. In a large network this is a potential weakness. Maybe this is why a soft JACE exists? They could put that maybe on a high powered machine and implement IP852.
    If you are talking a mammoth site and IP 852 was the only thing to worry about. They would most definitely have a Websupervisor, Then I believe you would not even need JACE's to do it. We could buy a bunch of your NIC-IP's and Rdirectly to the supervisor. Look Sys.... you too can succeed with .Tridium.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
    Posts
    7,281
    Look Sys.... you too can succeed with .Tridium.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    I'm not questioning the success with Tridium... or being successful. I'm questioning how an integrator can be more successful and maybe spend less money being successful. Additionally, when you look at IP852 from my perspective, I would want to be able to analyze the networks remotely, and you cannot do that stringing JACE boxes together. It's a problem with that infrastructure. I'm looking for a solution for customers in regards to this.

    Which is why I position Tridium the way I do. I think if you review my posts on this I'm trying to see where and how Tridium is most scalable with LON, and whether we have product to enhance the service and scalability of the product.

    But to say they have optimum design for large networks may be premature. I would say they are very good. Most networks in the US are not large.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    949
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    I'm not questioning the success with Tridium... or being successful.
    Loytec BS.
    I'm questioning how an integrator can be more successful and maybe spend less money being successful.
    Uniformed Loytec BS.
    Additionally, when you look at IP852 from my perspective, I would want to be able to analyze the networks remotely, and you cannot do that stringing JACE boxes together.
    Uniformed Loytec BS.
    It's a problem with that infrastructure. I'm looking for a solution for customers in regards to this.
    Uniformed Loytec BS.
    Which is why I position Tridium the way I do. I think if you review my posts on this I'm trying to see where and how Tridium is most scalable with LON, and whether we have product to enhance the service and scalability of the product.
    Loytec BS & envy.
    But to say they have optimum design for large networks may be premature. I would say they are very good. Most networks in the US are not large.
    Uniformed Loytec BS & envy.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    9,564
    OK Ninax-- Let's start here:

    Quote:
    Additionally, when you look at IP852 from my perspective, I would want to be able to analyze the networks remotely, and you cannot do that stringing JACE boxes together.
    You state: "Uniformed Loytec BS."

    I have one of the largest Tridium contractors in the country that is also an authorized training facility that asked about the ability for full protocol analyzation ability and how to accomplish this. So, I guess that's Tridium contractor BS to you?

    For a fact with Loytec products I can analyze any number of networks from my office top to bottom utilizing IP852 because Loytec can analyze FT-10 traffic on the backside of their equipment. Tell me how you completely analyze LON packets through multiple JACE boxes if you are such a smart guy. I'd love to hear it because this contractor I have alot of respect for is indicating they can't do it.

    Further, Loytec also has Redundant routing capability. So, you can have a 100% redundant FT-10 network with 100% redundant routing/redirection and get network statistical data. How do you do that with Tridium JACE boxes?
    Last edited by sysint; 10-22-2008 at 11:52 AM.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event