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Thread: ALC and ASHRAE

  1. #1
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    ALC and ASHRAE

    "Automated Logic's WebCTRL building automation system is part of the "Living Laboratory", ASHRAE's $7.5 million renovation of it's headquarters..."


    I wonder who ASHRAE likes?
    "It's not that I'm smart, it's that I stay with the problem longer”
    Albert Einstein

  2. #2
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    Well if they are like most owners they like controls contractors who are proactive, communicate, and know what a schedule is.

  3. #3
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    I would think Carrier has alittle to do with it too.
    UA 100

    It takes three people to do anything around here. Two do the work, one explains to the crowd of people who showed up when they seen smoke and flames.

  4. #4
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    Why Carrier? Because of the same parent company? Looks like they went with Climate Master and Daiken if it makes any difference.
    "It's not that I'm smart, it's that I stay with the problem longer”
    Albert Einstein

  5. #5
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    I wonder why ASHRAE didn't use a multi-vendor bacnet system with their multi-vendor software or serving products?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    I wonder why ASHRAE didn't use a multi-vendor bacnet system with their multi-vendor software or serving products?
    It is still Top Secret. They dont want to pop the bubble too early.

  7. #7
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    ALC always seems to get top billing with ASHRAE. I'm thinking they may be the only bacnet contractor out there. Don't you think that every bacnet contractor would have donated? I'm sure that answer is a resounding yes. Let's put it this way, I'm sure every bacnet vendor would have been more than happy to donate some controllers for every area. What I fine testament to non-commercial ASHRAE bacnet interoperability.

    I can't imagine why ASHRAE didn't do it. Does anybody else have any ideas as to why they went single vendor with their premier choice for bacnet?

    Gee, I wonder if that Swan guy at Alerton is upset? ASHRAE must not think much of their quality or delivery of product.

  8. #8
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    ALC was was showcased in that project because of WebCTRL's intuitive user interface and also because of the built in energy crunching/reporting routines inherent to the ALC product. Look at the article in the ASHRAE journal, I don't think "BACNET" is mentioned more than ONCE. The focus is where it should be, on useability & how the product applies to the customer's goal, in this case a green building and selecting a system that best fits their goals. Look at the GUI screenshots on their website. None of that stuff is custom coding - they are all energy monitoring routines built into the product.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    ALC always seems to get top billing with ASHRAE. I'm thinking they may be the only bacnet contractor out there. Don't you think that every bacnet contractor would have donated? I'm sure that answer is a resounding yes. Let's put it this way, I'm sure every bacnet vendor would have been more than happy to donate some controllers for every area. What I fine testament to non-commercial ASHRAE bacnet interoperability.

    I can't imagine why ASHRAE didn't do it. Does anybody else have any ideas as to why they went single vendor with their premier choice for bacnet?

    Gee, I wonder if that Swan guy at Alerton is upset? ASHRAE must not think much of their quality or delivery of product.
    Seems that some *cough* control pros shove the interoperability issue down the customer's throat and try to make that issue front and center. Make the efficiency of the MECHANICAL system front and center instead of the interoperability of the CONTROL system.

  10. #10
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    This is hardly the average customer or an average installation. They do call the facility a "living laboratory" right?

    EDIT: I see they are using Powerlogic meters. That is a nice product. -- anyway, on the screen shots what are the built-in energy routines you talk about?
    Last edited by sysint; 10-24-2008 at 01:25 PM.

  11. #11
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    OK... so make my statement (for every job)...

    Make the efficiency of the BUILDING & MECHANICAL system front and center instead of the interoperability of the CONTROL system.

    Seems like controls were born of necessity to make systems more efficient. Somewhere along the line the controls industry jumped a track and has tried to put the focus more upon interoperability than upon the systems that controls control. Choosing between two professionals, one who knows & controls systems well and one who's an ace at interoperable systems, should be a hands down choice for the former. get back to basics... <end rant>

  12. #12
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    Well now I guess you finally are starting to understand my position. Go with works best right? Would you rather have a bad or old technological mechanical system or a good modern one? ASHRAE is clearly demonstrating modern solutions.

    Why should your fieldbus or automation choice be any different?... if of course you were being objective about things.

    I think in the world of bacnet ALC has by far the biggest lead. Nobody can keep up with them. It wouldn't pay to integrate everyone else's inferior product. Does ALC have a Modbus gateway? I wonder what those powerlogic meters communicated?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysint View Post
    This is hardly the average customer or an average installation. They do call the facility a "living laboratory" right?

    EDIT: I see they are using Powerlogic meters. That is a nice product. -- anyway, on the screen shots what are the built-in energy routines you talk about?
    see the Environmental Index screen shot? That's called a "dashboard". Energy meters (water, steam, etc) report current energy rates to subordinate equipment who in turn trim setpoints to accomdate established setpoints. Based on the relationship of energy setpoints to acutal building conditions, the environmental index is generated to display the "green performance" of the building. This can be applied at a building level, equipment level, etc. the back end work for energy shaving and reporting is built into the product. There's also discharge air trim & respond techniques built into the AHU systems that respond based on zone conditions.

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