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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Dallas,Texas
    Posts
    4,956
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffreyjay View Post
    What's a widowmaker? I do things right, I'm just curious.
    A receptacle or the end of an extension cord with 2 or 3 alligator clips to attach to the line voltage. Called a widowmaker because the practice of clipping onto line voltage and ground is effective but can be dangerous.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dallas, Tx.
    Posts
    572
    Quote Originally Posted by Airmechanical View Post
    you will need a pretty big (and heavy) transformer to run that vacuum pump!



    .
    I have used one for years, mounted on a board with primary and secondary fuses and an outlet. It is a PITA to cerry around, but so is the torch, pump, recovery machine, and all the other necessaties. i got tired just thinking about it. I'm going to go take a break.
    mike

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    4,229
    I just think Dewalt needs to get busy an make us some cordless vacuume pumps and recovey units.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    706

    cheater cord for me...

    I use my cheater cord quite often. To help reduce the chance of getting shocked when hooking up your cheater cord to a box that has live power, not easily switched off, I am wearing a pair of nitrile disposable gloves. I started wearing the nitrile gloves about three years ago when doing service calls for a couple of reasons; I got tired of my hands getting so dirty that it almost stains them. Getting coil cleaning solution or other chemicals that we use on my hands. Another killer was your cell phone would be ringing and it is located deep down in your front pocket, hands covered in grease. Now when it rings I just pull my glove off, and now I have a clean hand to answer it with. I can honestly say it has been at least two years since I've been bitten by any form of electricity. These nitrile gloves make for an excellent and inexpensive safety device.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Western Wa
    Posts
    1,837
    Think about the price of electronic gear in the building when you create a ground loop with your "cheater cord".
    God Bless our Veterans

    God Bless the USA

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    1,461
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfdog View Post
    A receptacle or the end of an extension cord with 2 or 3 alligator clips to attach to the line voltage. Called a widowmaker because the practice of clipping onto line voltage and ground is effective but can be dangerous.
    It's a lot safer with these...........

    http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/cat...ectors-sleeves

    As are several other things we do everyday in this trade.........

    A pair of these saved my bacon this summer when a 250 amp ungrounded disconnect shorted to the case on me. Instead of using me as the ground path, it arced across the wall about a foot to a piece of EMT and blew the 1,000 amp breaker in the main panel. I thought they were a stupid idea from the office when they gave them to me, but I'm a believer now.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    ottawa canada
    Posts
    2,059
    I think the saying goes "Your a long time dead" thats why it says always wear your gloves on the bag you keep your high voltage gloves in !!!!!!!
    Nitrile gloves to work on live power ??????? badbillr you need your head read if you think they will save you ???? They are intended for that test that the doctor gives you when your over forty and the last time I checked there was no live power up there ??????????
    The 64 roars to life Whoo hoo ...shes a rolling chassis .
    You bend em" I"ll mend em" !!!!!!!
    I"m not a service tech.. I"m a thermodynamic transfer analyst & strategic system sustainability specialist
    Best Austin Healey In Show twice in 2013 .....All those hrs paid off .

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    ottawa canada
    Posts
    2,059
    Food for thought re -: electrical safety
    Most of the three phase stuff in Canada is 575v . Thats 347 one leg to ground. I have had the experience before they made us wear gloves of that 347 through me . It &*@$ing hurts and I was sore for a week and consider myself very very lucky to be able to write this .
    I know personally of an ex colleague who left a wife and 2 young kids because he didnt put his gloves on .
    I also know of an apprentice who was killed trying to remove a condenser fan on a 2 stage Carrier rooftop . He dissconnected Y2 thinking that would be OK but when he cut that live line to the motor his knees became the ground as he was kneeling on top of the unit , the voltage blew holes in both knees and he bled to death crawling across the roof to try and get to help.
    Dont think I will be Ok I've done it like this for years , It takes as little as 1/10th of an amp to stop your heart . It will be over in a fraction of a second for the guy with no gloves but it will be a lifetime sentence for the devastated family ,freinds and co-workers that will no longer see you
    Take the time needed to be safe and "ALWAYS WEAR YOUR GLOVES "
    The 64 roars to life Whoo hoo ...shes a rolling chassis .
    You bend em" I"ll mend em" !!!!!!!
    I"m not a service tech.. I"m a thermodynamic transfer analyst & strategic system sustainability specialist
    Best Austin Healey In Show twice in 2013 .....All those hrs paid off .

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Southeastern Pa
    Posts
    18,557
    Quote Originally Posted by graham View Post
    Food for thought re -: electrical safety
    Most of the three phase stuff in Canada is 575v . Thats 347 one leg to ground. I have had the experience before they made us wear gloves of that 347 through me . It &*@$ing hurts and I was sore for a week and consider myself very very lucky to be able to write this .
    I know personally of an ex colleague who left a wife and 2 young kids because he didnt put his gloves on .
    I also know of an apprentice who was killed trying to remove a condenser fan on a 2 stage Carrier rooftop . He dissconnected Y2 thinking that would be OK but when he cut that live line to the motor his knees became the ground as he was kneeling on top of the unit , the voltage blew holes in both knees and he bled to death crawling across the roof to try and get to help.
    Dont think I will be Ok I've done it like this for years , It takes as little as 1/10th of an amp to stop your heart . It will be over in a fraction of a second for the guy with no gloves but it will be a lifetime sentence for the devastated family ,freinds and co-workers that will no longer see you
    Take the time needed to be safe and "ALWAYS WEAR YOUR GLOVES "
    When I was a youngster, I had to learn to climb poles and work with 4,400 and 6,600 volt lines for a railroad signal power system. We heard a lot of very disquieting stories about men who died on the job, and how knowledge of their mistakes could save our lives.

    One of the electric company posters we had on the wall at one location explained that it is the lower voltages that are most likely to kill you. The theory went that if the voltage is high enough, your chest is forced to contract and holds your heart still against the back of the thoracic cavity, keeping it from going into fibrillation. It explained that lesser voltages (on the order of what we find in HVAC, less than 1,000 v) are more likely so send the heart into fibrillation, causing almost certain death without access to an AED. Of course, survival of a high voltage experience most often leads to burns and amputation.

    The poster also observed that only .006 amps, or 6 microamps, can stop the heart or send it into the spasms of fibrillation.

    One of the things we did when working in instrument cases to prevent a current flow from one hand to the other (and therefore, across the chest) was to keep one hand in the pocket instead of touching a case or leaning against the case while moving the other hand near live wires, even when they were well insulated.

    So, if you are going to use a cheater, cut the power to make your connection or to remove it.

    You have to be careful, because things CAN happen to you.

    A couple of times a month, I drive by the vacant spot next to DeSimone auto sales on the Roosevelt Boulevard in Northeast Philly, where an HVAC man from New Jersey was killed while servicing the Friendly's restaurant that stood on that spot. After his death, the store never reopened.

    As the good Sergeant used to say..


    "...........and HEY!......let's be careful out there!"
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

    AOP Forum Rules:







  10. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    105
    well, I made a widowmaker, but did not have to use it, as I did indeed find an electrical outlet nearby. now if they only made water a requirement as well, I could clean the coils without a major hassle as well.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Dallas,Texas
    Posts
    4,956
    Where you at downtown?

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    105
    Well, my problem was more in general for other locations, but I happened to be at TomTom's asian grill...I never looked that hard the first day, but was pretty confident they would most likely have a plug, since there is a Sea of condensors on the roof (condos).

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Austell, Ga.
    Posts
    1,296
    [QUOTE=

    The poster also observed that only .006 amps, or 6 microamps, can stop the heart or send it into the spasms of fibrillation.

    Incorrecto amigo.

    .006 amps =6 ma or 6000 micro-amps

    GFCI's or "Residual Curent Devices" sold in the USA are set to trip @
    4-6ma(.004-.006 Amps) in less than 25milli-seconds(.025 sec)for personal safety and 30ma(.030a) for equipment protection.
    European versions, where people are much tougher than us apparrently, are set to trip @ 10-300 ma(.010-.300a).
    Ain't "None" of us as smart as "All" of us..

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