Terrorism
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Thread: Terrorism

  1. #1
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    Terrorism

    "Terrorism is the act of threatening or committing violence against living creatures...Sabotage is the dismantling of the tools of terrorism."

    Edward Abbey
    Tracers work both ways.

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    Any personal comment?
    Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    By that definition anyone that works in a chicken processing plant is a terrorist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Remodeltdt01 View Post
    By that definition anyone that works in a chicken processing plant is a terrorist.

    Oh ya.

    Really though, if you read Abbey's books I think you would conclude he was refering to people and reminding us that we are living creatures.
    Abbey was in almost every way a rascal on one hand but also an enlightened pragmatist on the other.
    If interested his book The Monkey Wrench Gang will explain his thinking about sabotage and it's relation to the Earth.
    Tracers work both ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrs reb77 View Post
    Any personal comment?
    The short answer is that William Ayers was a saboteur not a terrorist.
    Tracers work both ways.

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    My comment was pointing to the hit and run post. We could sit around posting quotes from others all day, that doesn't fit with the rules though unless you provide your personal commentary.

    William Ayers threatened or committed acts of violence against living creatures, no?
    Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    The short answer is that William Ayers was a saboteur not a terrorist.
    Dude, he[ayers] set off bombs in public buildings,.. That is terrorism, not sabotaging.

    And that edward abbey guy sounds like a pointey-headed nut-job, based on the one quote you gave..

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrs reb77 View Post
    My comment was pointing to the hit and run post. We could sit around posting quotes from others all day, that doesn't fit with the rules though unless you provide your personal commentary.

    William Ayers threatened or committed acts of violence against living creatures, no?

    No, in fact he did not. The Weather Underground he was involved in targeted empty buildings of corporations and government they felt were committing a criminal act in Vietnam.
    I was living in Chicago during this time it's seems impossible to explain the mindset.
    Revolution was in the air.
    The rolleyes thing is stupid sophomoric. You'd do me a favor by just placing me on your ignore list.
    Tracers work both ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Dude, he[ayers] set off bombs in public buildings,.. That is terrorism, not sabotaging.

    And that edward abbey guy sounds like a pointey-headed nut-job, based on the one quote you gave..

    I know it's hard to believe today if one hadn't lived there (Chicago) at the time but many of these people considered themselves patriots.
    Many felt the corporate structure in America was involved in the wars escalation for profit like Haliburton is today.
    The military was lying to the politicians and they were lying to the people. The frustration came from lies.
    Sabotage differs from terrorism fundamentally. Sabotage attempts to engage an enemy directly not randomly kill people to drive fear in them.
    In 1968-1972 there were many act of sabotage in this country but I can not remember anyone being afraid. Americans knew they were not the targets, the war machine was.
    Ed Abbey makes a lot of since in his writings. He is a rascal and probably not tame-able. He died some time ago but his books are still in print.
    Tracers work both ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    I know it's hard to believe today if one hadn't lived there (Chicago) at the time but many of these people considered themselves patriots.
    Many felt the corporate structure in America was involved in the wars escalation for profit like Haliburton is today.
    The military was lying to the politicians and they were lying to the people. The frustration came from lies.
    Sabotage differs from terrorism fundamentally. Sabotage attempts to engage an enemy directly not randomly kill people to drive fear in them.
    In 1968-1972 there were many act of sabotage in this country but I can not remember anyone being afraid. Americans knew they were not the targets, the war machine was.
    Ed Abbey makes a lot of since in his writings. He is a rascal and probably not tame-able. He died some time ago but his books are still in print.
    Sounds to me like you are a supporter of terrorists and support the commies all the way. Must love them huh. That's who we were fighting in Nam but thanks to commie supporters in the Democratic Party and commie loving hippies we pulled out and let them slaughter the innocent. Over 2,000,000 were killed in Cambodia about 1/3 the population. It's nice to know that you support them.
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    No, in fact he did not. The Weather Underground he was involved in targeted empty buildings of corporations and government they felt were committing a criminal act in Vietnam.
    I was living in Chicago during this time it's seems impossible to explain the mindset.
    Revolution was in the air.
    The rolleyes thing is stupid sophomoric. You'd do me a favor by just placing me on your ignore list.
    How about explaining this. Greenwich Village explosion

    Main article: Greenwich Village townhouse explosion
    On March 6, 1970, during preparations for the bombing of an officers' dance at the Fort Dix U.S. Army base and for Butler Library at Columbia University,[26] there was an explosion in a Greenwich Village safe house when the nail bomb being constructed prematurely detonated due to a wiring malfunction. WUO members Diana Oughton, Ted Gold, and Terry Robbins died in the explosion. Cathy Wilkerson and Kathy Boudin escaped unharmed, Boudin running naked from the apartment. It was an accident of history that the site of the Village explosion was the former residence of Merrill Lynch brokerage firm founder Charles Merrill and his son, the poet James Merrill. The younger Merrill subsequently recorded the event in his poem 18 West 11th Street, the title being the address of the house. An FBI report later stated that the group had possessed sufficient amounts of explosive to "level ... both sides of the street".[27]
    The bomb preparations have been pointed out by critics of the claim that the Weatherman group did not try to take lives with its bombings. Harvey Klehr, the Andrew W. Mellon professor of politics and history at Emory University in Atlanta, said in 2003, "The only reason they were not guilty of mass murder is mere incompetence. I don't know what sort of defense that is."[26]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization)

    The group was investigated for a bombing that took place on February 16, 1970, in which a pipe bomb filled with shrapnel detonated on the ledge of a window at the Park Station of the San Francisco Police Department. Brian V. McDonnell, a police sergeant, was fatally wounded in the explosion, and Robert Fogarty, another police officer, was severely wounded in his face and legs and was partially blinded[2 and a San Francisco grand jury looked into the incident, but no indictments followed.
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

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    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    I know it's hard to believe today if one hadn't lived there (Chicago) at the time but many of these people considered themselves patriots.
    Many felt the corporate structure in America was involved in the wars escalation for profit like Haliburton is today.
    The military was lying to the politicians and they were lying to the people. The frustration came from lies.
    Sabotage differs from terrorism fundamentally. Sabotage attempts to engage an enemy directly not randomly kill people to drive fear in them.
    In 1968-1972 there were many act of sabotage in this country but I can not remember anyone being afraid. Americans knew they were not the targets, the war machine was.
    Ed Abbey makes a lot of since in his writings. He is a rascal and probably not tame-able. He died some time ago but his books are still in print.
    Well, if you were to set off bombs in banks and public buildings and govornment buildings... I will agree that that is not the same category of crime as the loons who do mass killings for the sake of killing. But it is neither innocent sabatoge either. Let's face it, it is not like Ayers let the air out if a tire on an army-jeep. He was out to overthrow the govornment and underminded our national war effort. Seditious. I understand alot of folks hated that war, but bombing buildings is WAY over the top. Ayers was also a socialist movement, "capitalising" ironically, on an unpopular war effort. Terrorist.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    How about explaining this. Greenwich Village explosion

    Main article: Greenwich Village townhouse explosion
    On March 6, 1970, during preparations for the bombing of an officers' dance at the Fort Dix U.S. Army base and for Butler Library at Columbia University,[26] there was an explosion in a Greenwich Village safe house when the nail bomb being constructed prematurely detonated due to a wiring malfunction. WUO members Diana Oughton, Ted Gold, and Terry Robbins died in the explosion. Cathy Wilkerson and Kathy Boudin escaped unharmed, Boudin running naked from the apartment. It was an accident of history that the site of the Village explosion was the former residence of Merrill Lynch brokerage firm founder Charles Merrill and his son, the poet James Merrill. The younger Merrill subsequently recorded the event in his poem 18 West 11th Street, the title being the address of the house. An FBI report later stated that the group had possessed sufficient amounts of explosive to "level ... both sides of the street".[27]
    The bomb preparations have been pointed out by critics of the claim that the Weatherman group did not try to take lives with its bombings. Harvey Klehr, the Andrew W. Mellon professor of politics and history at Emory University in Atlanta, said in 2003, "The only reason they were not guilty of mass murder is mere incompetence. I don't know what sort of defense that is."[26]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weatherman_(organization)

    The group was investigated for a bombing that took place on February 16, 1970, in which a pipe bomb filled with shrapnel detonated on the ledge of a window at the Park Station of the San Francisco Police Department. Brian V. McDonnell, a police sergeant, was fatally wounded in the explosion, and Robert Fogarty, another police officer, was severely wounded in his face and legs and was partially blinded[2 and a San Francisco grand jury looked into the incident, but no indictments followed.
    Bingo, superman. They were assembling ''nail-bomb[s]''. That does not target infrastructure but personnell. Murderers.

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