Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1

    Trane XL15i vs XR14

    I was originally considering getting a two-stage heat pump and oversizing it. Based on responses to prior posts, I have decided to abandon that idea and just go with a single stage 2.5 ton heat pump for my 1500 sq. ft. home in Pittsburgh. I'm not sure that a two-stage heat pump would pay-off in the Northeast.

    I am really leaning toward the Trane XL15i, but the ARI website has some decent numbers on the XR14 as well. Is the XR14 worth considering or would you recommend just going with the 15i? We are planning to use the heat pump with a Trane variable speed air handler with optional heat strips. We are also planning to live in this house for a long time.

    Thanks for your help and advice.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,319
    Look at all the numbers.

    XR14 with 4TEE3F31 air handler

    14.00 SEER
    8.45 HSPF
    29,600 BTU cooling
    27,000 BTU heat at 47
    18,200 BTU heat at 17

    By comparison 15i

    14.30 SEER, no biggie
    8.80 HSPF, slightly better
    30,000 BTU cooling, no biggie
    30,400 BTU heat, only real advantage
    18,200 BTU heat at 17, same

    So really no real economic reason to pay the big bucks for the 15i unless you like the better warranty and funky top. Personally I'd get the 10 year P&L and go with the 14.

    Where the other models take a heating hit is with A coils, not air handlers.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCitySteve View Post
    I was originally considering getting a two-stage heat pump and oversizing it. Based on responses to prior posts, I have decided to abandon that idea and just go with a single stage 2.5 ton heat pump for my 1500 sq. ft. home in Pittsburgh. I'm not sure that a two-stage heat pump would pay-off in the Northeast.
    Good choice, Steve.

    Take the difference in the money that you would have spent on the 2-stage system and put it into energy improvements for the home: more insulation, a storm door w/magnetic seal, a replacement window, etc.

    Note: Was a heat gain/loss calc done to determine system sizing? Can you handle a 3 ton unit?

    Take care.

  4. #4

    Answer to question from Gary_g

    Thanks for the advice, Gary. I really appreciate it. I have not had the formal sizing calculation done yet by the Trane rep. Our current A/C unit is 2.5 tons and I did a quick calculation from a web site on the internet. I think it will be close - between a 2.5 and 3.0 ton unit. I'm just trying to figure out everything I can before I call this guy for a formal estimate. I'm sure he is busy this time of year, and I don't want to waste his time.

    I'm guessing that a 3 ton unit would have more output, but would cost more to operate than a 2.5 ton because of its greater capacity? My only concern with the 3 ton unit is that it might possibly short cycle on the A/C. I've read that it is best for a heat pump or a/c unit to run longer to acheive greater efficiency. I've also heard short cycling can be hard on the unit itself. I'm worried that the 2.5 ton unit might struggle to keep up on cold days though.

    If I can only get a 2.5 ton unit, is it possible to have the thermostat for the auxiliary heat set at a lower temperature to turn on than the temperature to turn on the heat pump to minimize the use of the heat strips? For example, could you set the heat pump temp at 70 degrees and the auxiliary heat at 62 degrees to turn on? I'm thinking the unit will struggle mostly through the night when the outside temp falls and it might be cheaper to set the auxiliary heat at a lower temperature, put on some extra blankets at night, and let the heat pump stuggle a little bit. I also figure I could just let the heat pump run all the time since the COP is better than 1.00 even at very low outside temps. If this can be done, what Trane (or other brand) thermostat would you recommend?

    Thanks again for your help and advice.

  5. #5

    Response to BaldLoonie

    Thanks for the advice, BaldLoonie. I showed my wife the numbers you posted and we are really leaning toward the XR14 now. I have to admit, I actually like the funky top on the 15i. My wife doesn't think it is necessary. I think it would keep the snow and ice off the unit so it might be useful, but no other manufacturer seems to have this funky top so I am somewhat skeptical about its usefulness. I suppose I could make a small wooden roof to put over top of the XR14 to keep the snow off it. Would that be a bad idea for any reason?

    Also, I'm thinking about getting the Trane Clean effects installed with the system. Is it better to get the variable speed air handler with the Clean effects built into it or would it be better to add it on to the air handler seperately, if that is even possible. I'm also thinking about adding a humidifier. Can you add a humidifier to an air handler? If so, would the 300A work best for us with a 1500 sq. ft. house? I think that unit can be set to automatically adjust to changes in the outside temperature, but not 100% sure.

    Thanks again for your advice. We are almost there.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    NW AR
    Posts
    2,478
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCitySteve View Post
    Thanks for the advice, BaldLoonie. I showed my wife the numbers you posted and we are really leaning toward the XR14 now. I have to admit, I actually like the funky top on the 15i. My wife doesn't think it is necessary. I think it would keep the snow and ice off the unit so it might be useful, but no other manufacturer seems to have this funky top so I am somewhat skeptical about its usefulness. I suppose I could make a small wooden roof to put over top of the XR14 to keep the snow off it. Would that be a bad idea for any reason?

    Also, I'm thinking about getting the Trane Clean effects installed with the system. Is it better to get the variable speed air handler with the Clean effects built into it or would it be better to add it on to the air handler seperately, if that is even possible. I'm also thinking about adding a humidifier. Can you add a humidifier to an air handler? If so, would the 300A work best for us with a 1500 sq. ft. house? I think that unit can be set to automatically adjust to changes in the outside temperature, but not 100% sure.

    Thanks again for your advice. We are almost there.
    The Xl does look good IMO. Shes correct, its unecessary.

    If you make a roof over it make sure you got 6' from the top of the unit.

    I too, would go with the XR and buy the 10yr. P&L.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    29
    I'm a Trane dealer. I have an XL19i in my home and I'm putting one in for a customer tomorrow as a matter of fact. One thing to keep in mind is that you have to look at the fact that the XL19i actually consumes less than half of the electricity on the low stage than when on the high stage. They aren't allowed to rate the SEER on the low stage, but it would be above 20 on your tonnage if installed properly.


    It's not just the utility savings though. You also have to consider your comfort, and 2-stage is just far more comfortable in my area due to the humidity. My unit runs on the low stage about 90% of the time, and with it running more and cleaning the air with my Clean Effects (which it's not doing when the thermostat is satisfied obviously) on a more consistent basis, my wife's allergies have seen a real improvement. You could probably add it later (depending on application) but it would be more expensive due to the labor as it would be the external model.

    I put in a lot of XR equipment too though, so there's no shame in that condenser with a variable speed air handler at all. Good luck!

  8. #8

    Ar Hvac Man Reply

    Thanks for the advice, Ar Hvac Man. My wife figured out that P&L means parts and labor. She says that is an extended warranty that we can purchase from Trane. We will do that thanks to your advice. What is IMO though? We are not sure what that means.

    Thanks again for your help. We really appreciate it.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Waffleville
    Posts
    10,339
    IMO in my opinion

    IMO i would go with the XL15i it has variable speed outdoor fan as well as the variable speed indoor fan

    yes the ten year part and labor warranty is an additional cost when purchacing the equipment, but it covers part and labor for ten years

    the Xl15i factory warranty is better than the xr14 if you decide not to do the 10ry p&l, but i would do the extened warranty! either way, make sure your equipment is using R410a, ask your contractor before committing
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

  10. #10

    Reply to Chozn1

    Thanks for the advice, Chozn1. The Trane dealer we were talking with also recommended the 19i. I am actually an environmental nut, but I don't push my crazy beliefs on everyone else. I think that is the problem with the environmental movement. Most of the enviromentalists I know are just angry people who want to stir things up and they have a negative effect on people like my wife. I really just want to do the right thing. I don't want to ruin the planet for my daughter. So, I'm just not able to buy the 19i because of the R22. My wife is a conservative Republican who hates it when I make her recycle, but she is hot like Palin. Opposites attract and I'm a man. You know. One day I will get through to her. But even she realizes that R22 is on the way out and that it will cost us more down the road to fix it. We are waiting for the release of the 20i Trane unit. If the ARI numbers are good, we will consider it as well. I have to say though that we are really considering the XR14 because of the replies to this post and because we live in the Northeast. I'm just not sure the pay-off will be there for us on a two stage unit in Pittsburgh. I will talk with her about the comfort aspect though. Thanks again for your advice on the two stage unit, Chozn1, because we may consider the 20i when it comes out soon.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCitySteve View Post
    Thanks for the advice, Gary. I really appreciate it. I have not had the formal sizing calculation done yet by the Trane rep. Our current A/C unit is 2.5 tons and I did a quick calculation from a web site on the internet. I think it will be close - between a 2.5 and 3.0 ton unit. I'm just trying to figure out everything I can before I call this guy for a formal estimate. I'm sure he is busy this time of year, and I don't want to waste his time.

    I'm guessing that a 3 ton unit would have more output, but would cost more to operate than a 2.5 ton because of its greater capacity? My only concern with the 3 ton unit is that it might possibly short cycle on the A/C. I've read that it is best for a heat pump or a/c unit to run longer to acheive greater efficiency. I've also heard short cycling can be hard on the unit itself. I'm worried that the 2.5 ton unit might struggle to keep up on cold days though.

    If I can only get a 2.5 ton unit, is it possible to have the thermostat for the auxiliary heat set at a lower temperature to turn on than the temperature to turn on the heat pump to minimize the use of the heat strips? For example, could you set the heat pump temp at 70 degrees and the auxiliary heat at 62 degrees to turn on? I'm thinking the unit will struggle mostly through the night when the outside temp falls and it might be cheaper to set the auxiliary heat at a lower temperature, put on some extra blankets at night, and let the heat pump stuggle a little bit. I also figure I could just let the heat pump run all the time since the COP is better than 1.00 even at very low outside temps. If this can be done, what Trane (or other brand) thermostat would you recommend?

    Thanks again for your help and advice.
    If the heat gain calc (sized for cooling) shows that you are between a 2.5 and 3 ton, I would go for the 3 ton because your application is a heat pump for primary heating. When the pro's talk about oversizing not being good for humidity removal during the summer, the oversizing has to significant enough (usually a ton or more) to make a difference. In the summer, you could always drop the setpoint a degree and the system will run longer and remove more humidity. This is what I do sometimes with my 3-ton heat pump for a 1700 sq-ft in Baltimore which is probably oversized by 1/2 ton (but like you I need all the btu's from the heat pump that I can get for heating). Make sure that your ducts are sized for a 3-ton system.

    To answer your question about the thermostat, the Honeywell VisionPro (with optional outdoor sensor) can lock out the aux heat strips or the heat pump at temperatures that you select.

    I agree that a 10 year parts and labor warranty is money well spent on an HVAC system. I would try and negotiate the price in with the deal.

    Take care.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    NW AR
    Posts
    2,478
    Quote Originally Posted by SteelCitySteve View Post
    Thanks for the advice, Ar Hvac Man. My wife figured out that P&L means parts and labor. She says that is an extended warranty that we can purchase from Trane. We will do that thanks to your advice. What is IMO though? We are not sure what that means.

    Thanks again for your help. We really appreciate it.
    No problem, were here to help.
    Beachtech refers to the difference in warranty. The XL comes with a standard 10/10/10 warranty. Compressor/Coil/Parts. The XR comes with a 10/10/5. If you purchase the extended warranty your parts and labor will be covered for 10 yrs. on either system anyway. Well worth the extra cash.

    The Xl is a sweet system, no doubt. IF money was not an issue I would buy the XL. It looks good and has more features that beachtech already noted. It would take many years to recoup the extra cost of the XL, thats why I recommmeded the XR.

    They are both nice systems, the final decision is yours. Ill repeat what beachtech said about making sure you get 410a, regardless of what model you choose.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Waffleville
    Posts
    10,339
    [QUOTE=gary_g;1999524]

    To answer your question about the thermostat, the Honeywell VisionPro (with optional outdoor sensor) can lock out the aux heat strips or the heat pump at temperatures that you select.

    QUOTE]

    same thermostat offered by trane TCONT 802-803 series

    upsizing doesn't always give you a better HSPF. humidity removal can be controlled by airflow with the variable speed indoor fan, to an extent
    If Guns Kill People, Do Pencils Misspell Words?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An2a1...eature=related

    Before we work on artificial intelligence why don't we do something about natural stupidity?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event