Another question about heat pumps

[larobj63]

Now I'm more confused than ever. Some say go with the electric heat strips, others say go with the dual fuel system. Is there any way to know for sure which would be the best system from a comfort and efficiency standpoint? Or, should I just choose one and hope it works out? As you are all aware, this is a major expense and I would surely like to get it right the first time.
I really do appreciate the advice each has given so far.

Neal

Re-read my first post.

It has everything to do with YOUR fuel rates. You need to figure out which is cheaper to heat with for your rates - electric resistance or gas. That will be your back-up heat source.

Any system type can be designed to give wonderful comfort, it's a matter of fuel type. And fuel type is an economic issue - which is cheapest with your rates?

Judging from the comments on your fuel rates, it sounds like back-up strip electric heat is the way to go - provided your electric service can handle the load...

[sammy37]

According to his other post, his winter rate after 750 KWH is 3.74 cents.
Making electrice resistance heat cheaper then gas.
Plus, he can still get the benefit of the heat pump with electric aux heat when the OD temps are below design.

Heat pump with electric aux will cost less to heat with, then dual fuel.

I think beenthere pretty much laid it out here, with the low electric rates you have, I have to agree.

[mountainrivers]

Thanks for all the expert advice. I have talked to my Lennox dealer and he agrees that with our current electric rates that I would be better off with the all-electric system, so I am going to go ahead with that. The only other question I had was whether there was any warranty on the old system, which is 19 years old and I am not the original owner. He said he would check with the factory on that and let me know. I also decided to upgrade to the XP15 system, which is a little more expensive, but has a rebate and the higher SEER allows me to get a $300 rebate from the electric company. I think that should allow me to just about break even on the upgrade.
Again, thank you to all who offered advice. I love the internet.

Neal

[ar_hvac_man]

[QUOTE=beenthere;1996941]

Dual fuel (gas) may be a better option for your location.

quote]

What makes you think that?

Its just my opinion. Hes in Nebraska with -double digits. I assume he has SOME gas appliances or he wouldnt even be considering a gas furnace.

It rarely gets below 0 here so H.P.'s are the only way to go IMO, but if I lived up north I would opt for dual-fuel, assuming I already had gas service to my home.

My generator could run a blower for a gas furnace. In extreme cold I would like that option. You aint gonna run elec. resist. heat with a genny.

[beenthere]

[QUOTE=ar_hvac_man;1998618]

Its just my opinion. Hes in Nebraska with -double digits. I assume he has SOME gas appliances or he wouldnt even be considering a gas furnace.

It rarely gets below 0 here so H.P.'s are the only way to go IMO, but if I lived up north I would opt for dual-fuel, assuming I already had gas service to my home.

My generator could run a blower for a gas furnace. In extreme cold I would like that option. You aint gonna run elec. resist. heat with a genny.

But does the OP have a generator, if not, he'll spend more for heating using gas, then electric aux.

[gary_g]

I believe that choices are a good thing.

He may have cheap electric rates now, like we did in Maryland up until a year ago. But our rates were jacked up 72% thanks to de-regulation without competition. If the OPs electric rates shoot up, he's stuck with no choice of alternate fuel (unless he uses a wood stove, pellet stove, etc.). If he goes dual-fuel, he has a choice.

Plus, his cheap rate is after the first 750 kw. So from 1 kw-hr to 749 kw-hr, strip heat is more expensive than gas.

I realize that going straight electric saves him the purchase cost of the gas furnace.

Just my 2 cents.

[mountainrivers]

I have a small ventless gas heater that will heat approximately 1000 sq.ft. For a short period of time, we can get by with that and the gas range in the kitchen. As for the number of KW hrs, I checked our usage for the past year and we never used less than 750Kw hrs. Our average was about 1500 Kw hrs. per month, with the high being in July of this year when we used 3000 KW hrs.
Our lowest consumption was in May of this year when we used 930 Kw hrs. May was unusually cool and July was unusually hot.

Neal

[beenthere]

I believe that choices are a good thing.

He may have cheap electric rates now, like we did in Maryland up until a year ago. But our rates were jacked up 72% thanks to de-regulation without competition. If the OPs electric rates shoot up, he's stuck with no choice of alternate fuel (unless he uses a wood stove, pellet stove, etc.). If he goes dual-fuel, he has a choice.

Plus, his cheap rate is after the first 750 kw. So from 1 kw-hr to 749 kw-hr, strip heat is more expensive than gas.

I realize that going straight electric saves him the purchase cost of the gas furnace.

Just my 2 cents.

Gary, your a thrifty person.

Look at your electric bill for a month where you don't use cooling or heating.
And tell us how many KWHs you use.

Next, think about what you said. His strip heat from 1 to 750KWH will be more?
No, it won't. His lights, and appliances like refrigerator, microwave, etc, and the HP, will use that first 750KWHs. So basically all his strip heat will be at the lower rate.(unless he makes a conscience effort not to use any more electric then he absolutely has to.

Your electric rate also went up because of that power plant they built back between 04 and 06. Got to recoup that money some how.

And if his nat gas is deregulated, it will shoot up 3 times as expensive as electric.

If his gas is or electric is going to be deregulated anytime soon. He'll know some years before hand.

Yours wasn't deregulated over night.

[ar_hvac_man]

Thanks for all the expert advice. I have talked to my Lennox dealer and he agrees that with our current electric rates that I would be better off with the all-electric system, so I am going to go ahead with that. The only other question I had was whether there was any warranty on the old system, which is 19 years old and I am not the original owner. He said he would check with the factory on that and let me know. I also decided to upgrade to the XP15 system, which is a little more expensive, but has a rebate and the higher SEER allows me to get a $300 rebate from the electric company. I think that should allow me to just about break even on the upgrade.
Again, thank you to all who offered advice. I love the internet.

Neal

Happy for ya and good luck with the new install. Take some pics for us.

[gary_g]

Gary, your a thrifty person. .

I am indeed a cheap bastard. I am trying to change, but it is difficult.

Next, think about what you said. His strip heat from 1 to 750KWH will be more?
No, it won't. His lights, and appliances like refrigerator, microwave, etc, and the HP, will use that first 750KWHs. So basically all his strip heat will be at the lower rate.(unless he makes a conscience effort not to use any more electric then he absolutely has to. .

You are correct.

Your electric rate also went up because of that power plant they built back between 04 and 06. Got to recoup that money some how.

And if his nat gas is deregulated, it will shoot up 3 times as expensive as electric.

If his gas is or electric is going to be deregulated anytime soon. He'll know some years before hand.

Yours wasn't deregulated over night.

From what I understand, MD had very cheap rates (7 cents per hw-hr or so generation) while regulation was in effect. When the geniuses decided to de-regulate because they thought it would reduce rates due to competition, there was no competition to be found because no company was interested in competing against 7 cent electricity. My rate is now 16 cents per kw-hr delivered.

Take care.

[beenthere]

Ours goes to 14 cents or so in 2010.
Deregulation was part of their allowing competition. They establish competition first, about 10 years or so ago.

They also have competition for NG in my area.
The NG competition is 5 cents a therm less, then the utility owners.

[ga-hvac-tech]

When n/gas was deregulated in GA about a decade ago, prices shot up and remain higher than many other parts of the country. Yeah, we have 5 or 6 up to 10 players offering gas. But the prices do not vary much.

A friend of mine in PA pays about 20 to 25% LESS for n/gas than we do in GA.

And with the recent gasoline mess from hurricane Ike; we are paying $3.95. Houston is paying a lot less... and my friend in PA is paying a lot less also.

DeRegulation, IMO, is nothing more than a payoff from the politicians to the business campaign contributors, financed by the public.

And I am wondering if this bail-out of Wall Street is not more of the same???

[Jopopsy]

Ours goes to 14 cents or so in 2010.
Deregulation was part of their allowing competition. They establish competition first, about 10 years or so ago.

They also have competition for NG in my area.
The NG competition is 5 cents a therm less, then the utility owners.

PPL or PECO?

[beenthere]

PPL

[Jopopsy]

PPL

Me too. Still gobs cheaper then propane or oil.

[smittyii]

[QUOTE=ar_hvac_man;1998618]

Its just my opinion. Hes in Nebraska with -double digits. I assume he has SOME gas appliances or he wouldnt even be considering a gas furnace.

It rarely gets below 0 here so H.P.'s are the only way to go IMO, but if I lived up north I would opt for dual-fuel, assuming I already had gas service to my home.

My generator could run a blower for a gas furnace. In extreme cold I would like that option. You aint gonna run elec. resist. heat with a genny.

ding ding ding we have a winner!! op should check out the rebates the gas co. gives out. none! ng is usually a regulated commodity affected by weather,etc. the price tends to flucuate more than electricity. dirt cheap in the summer, higher than a cat's a$$ in winter.