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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    I'm in PA.
    HP's have no problem cooling in the summer.
    You size the HP to the cooling load, just like you do a regular A/C.
    So why would it have a problem cooling.

    Oil companies, don't want you to use a heat pump and cut down on how much money they make on you.
    I worked for oil companies for over 12 years. They make money on selling oil. Not installing heat pumps to reduce oil consumption.
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  2. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Montreal, Qc.
    Posts
    775
    Quote Originally Posted by doogan123 View Post
    As I call around my neighbourhood getting more information on HP's, I had a conversation with a distributer today (Primairly oil/gas) who while was not against them, indicated that in the cold months you need backup (Which i was educated on by you guys) but also in the hot humid summer months - that a Heat pump typpically cannot keep up with the cooling load. Given my limited knowledge of these, I cannot say that this is accurate or not - however I find it hard to believe. Can anyone comment?

    Thanks again
    As far as backup heat being required I will agree with your distributor.

    As far as a heatpump not being able to cool as well as an A/C only system I will give you the low tech explanation.

    He's full of POO.

    So if you're thinking of a heatpump figure out what would be cheaper for you as far as backup heat is concerned. Electric heat or your current oil or gas. Figure out if your electrical entrance can handle your emergency heat if it's electric then you can decide what's best for you.

    Many heating contractors can do this for you.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    67,743
    Post your elctric rate for KW delivered. And your current oil price or gas rate.
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  4. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    The Beach
    Posts
    680

    Smile Cool Air In the winter as the Heat Pump comes on

    We put a timer on the fan for winter operation and the fan does not come on until the coil is warm. Some times we put a temperture sensor on the coil and this does the same thing. Keeping the fan off until the coil is warm and not circulating room temperture air. Also use a digital stat. This will keep the temperature with in one degree. The old mercury ones could swing from two to four degrees. If it was not for the old fogies we would have a lot less business. Not all of any one coustmers are perfect. We all have some bad ones.
    Blue Fox

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westchester Co, NY
    Posts
    104
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Post your elctric rate for KW delivered. And your current oil price or gas rate.
    KW delivered is .19
    Oil is ~4.25 ( last fill about a month ago)
    LP - ~ 3.16

    The backup heat is already undertood - It a must for my area. Probabally doing a propane boiler.

    Glad to hear that a correctly sized heat pump will cool sufficiently. I found it hard to believe that it would not. That is a must for me - if i am not cool in the summer - I am not happy

    Do I need to upgrade my Electrical - I have 200 Amp coming in - or would that only be for if I was using electric heat as a backup?

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,743
    ouch, your electric, oil and LP are all expensive.

    1,000,000 BTUs Oil at 82% Efficiency at $4.15 a gallon is $37.02
    1,000,000 BTUs LP at 95% Efficiency at $3.16 a gallon is $36.16
    1,000,000 BTUs HP at a COP Efficiency of 3 at $0.19 a KWH is $18.56
    1,000,000 BTUs Electric resistance heat at 100% Efficiency at $.19 a KWH is $55.67

    Your electric makes strip heat a bit prohibitive.
    So a dual fuel would be a better choice for you.
    But you need a 93% or better LP to be more economical then oil at 82%.
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  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westchester Co, NY
    Posts
    104
    I know - and all will go up this year. I am probabally going towards propane for the high eff. boiler backup/cooktop/bbq etc.

    Let me ask - and this may not be possible to answer - Assuming averages, (a well insulated home, static indoor temp say 68 constant, average cook top use, and average length of winter below 35 deg) and with with a heat pump setup like we are discussing installed, would i get away with 500 Gal of propane a year - or not even close.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,743
    Its possible. Since a hydro aux heat allows the heat pump to continue to run.
    Weather or not, you will. A comparison would have to be done, using last years total oil consumption for heating, and then calculating your bin data at the various temps for your area.
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  9. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Jackson, NJ
    Posts
    176
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Air discharge temp has no bearing on room humidity.

    The discharge air of a HP will read a higher RH, but will contain the same amount of actual moisture.

    If a house has high infiltration, you will still need a humidifier.
    I don't mean to hijack this thread (and if I am i will happily post a new topic), but am I reading this right? Heat Pump or Gas Furnace, neither will affect your humidity in the air by warming the air up. What affects the humidity is the amount of air infiltration you get during the course of the winter (and I will assume you get higher infiltration when the system is running do to the sucking power of the blower).

    I always thought that forced hot air systems dried out the air - its almost a universal complaint about those types of systems. Hence the whole (baseboard - moist heat argument).

    ????

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Dallas & Longview, TX
    Posts
    629
    Quote Originally Posted by Jopopsy View Post
    I don't mean to hijack this thread (and if I am i will happily post a new topic), but am I reading this right? Heat Pump or Gas Furnace, neither will affect your humidity in the air by warming the air up. What affects the humidity is the amount of air infiltration you get during the course of the winter (and I will assume you get higher infiltration when the system is running do to the sucking power of the blower).

    I always thought that forced hot air systems dried out the air - its almost a universal complaint about those types of systems. Hence the whole (baseboard - moist heat argument).

    ????
    Slight hijack so may post new topic if further info is needed but you seemed to misread Been's statement. He says the RH will change (decrease as temp increases) but the actual moisture content of the air remains the same. Infiltration of the dry outside air will decrease both the RH and the actual amount of moisture necessitating a humidifier.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,743
    Leaky supplies and returns can cause infiltration of outdoor air. So in those cases, a forced air system dries out a house more then a hydronic, or electric baseboard system.

    If the air entering the furnace has 50 grains of moisture per pound at 70°F, the air leaving the furnace at 140°F still has 50 grains of moisture per pound.

    And when that 140° air cools to 70, it will have the same RH as the room air.

    You can't destroy moisture.
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