NAE/ADS JCI Factory Tech can't figure out why zones won't follow weekly schedule

[Chet1508]

One of the biggest problems the factory JCI Branch tech is having big time problems determining why with the NAE/ADS he can't figure out why zones won't consistently follow weekly schedule. Random zones off the same weekly schedule will for some crazy reason will not follow what the weekly schedule shows it is send out. This is happening through out the whole building. For instance the weekly schedule will show it is in occupied mode, but several of the boxes will show and operate in unoccupied mode and vise versa. When he checks he shows those zones are liked to that particular time schedule. Anyone have any possible cures To pass on to this tech. Or do we have to add it up as another reason why the NAE System needs to TRASHED!!! BY JCI and TOLD GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD...

[NINAX]

Maybe a case of the branch tech not understanding what a Nae can, and cannot do?

I had a 'Branch' installed site doing this in several buildings. They kept blaming the ex-branch tech they hired to install/setup them. The branch attempted many, many, many times to resolve it. They did not.

The owner had his fill, and now they're cruising with FXs.

[Chris_Worthington]

Curious, the field devices are?

[freddy-b]

One of the biggest problems the factory JCI Branch tech is having big time problems determining why with the NAE/ADS he can't figure out why zones won't consistently follow weekly schedule. Random zones off the same weekly schedule will for some crazy reason will not follow what the weekly schedule shows it is send out. This is happening through out the whole building. For instance the weekly schedule will show it is in occupied mode, but several of the boxes will show and operate in unoccupied mode and vise versa. When he checks he shows those zones are liked to that particular time schedule. Anyone have any possible cures To pass on to this tech. Or do we have to add it up as another reason why the NAE System needs to TRASHED!!! BY JCI and TOLD GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD...

I have seen this and other time related deficiencies several times. I bet the next revision will take care of it!

[Chris_Worthington]

Freddy,

I do not have that much experience with the NAE'S, more with FX...

But do the NAE'S have difficulties reading/writing to certain points, on certain devices, like with FX field devices and an FX Jace??

I know on both N2 and LON FX devices, that there are a few point types that just wont read/write reliably/constantly unless a force read/write is given. An intermittent PITA.....

[freddy-b]

Freddy,

I do not have that much experience with the NAE'S, more with FX...

But do the NAE'S have difficulties reading/writing to certain points, on certain devices, like with FX field devices and an FX Jace??

I know on both N2 and LON FX devices, that there are a few point types that just wont read/write reliably/constantly unless a force read/write is given. An intermittent PITA.....

They have issues with just about everything. NAE's handle N2 pretty well when it comes to reliable point data.

The problem mentioned above..the points are mapped correctly and are reliable (as far as readable data) but does stuff all on its own. Its like a optimal Start gone rogue, but no optimal start is setup.

Lon with a NAE is the biggest kluster you can imagine. Total joke..when compared to a real Lon solution.

[dx9100]

Freddy
Personally, I have never experienced this problem before.
Couple of possible reasons for that problem :
1. The points you are having trouble may be used in other process or interlocks
2. The commands in the schedule may not be setup right.

You can try to just setup an individual schedule for the problem points and see if still happens.

Or you can try using 'Global Data Sharing' on those points driven from a common point which is commanded by a time schedule

And there is no need to 'Tharsh' the NAEs or ADS

[freddy-b]

Freddy
Personally, I have never experienced this problem before.
Couple of possible reasons for that problem :
1. The points you are having trouble may be used in other process or interlocks
2. The commands in the schedule may not be setup right.

You can try to just setup an individual schedule for the problem points and see if still happens.

Or you can try using 'Global Data Sharing' on those points driven from a common point which is commanded by a time schedule

And there is no need to 'Tharsh' the NAEs or ADS

Ya, or space aliens could be jamming the signal from their cloaked starship.

[berg2666]

And what about the other devices involved, what are they.

[berg2666]

Is it one particular NAE that these devices come off of? How many NAE's are there and what type NAE? Is there any comm loss between the ADS and NAE? What revision are you running?

[Chet1508]

Freddy
Personally, I have never experienced this problem before.
Couple of possible reasons for that problem :
1. The points you are having trouble may be used in other process or interlocks
2. The commands in the schedule may not be setup right.

You can try to just setup an individual schedule for the problem points and see if still happens.

Or you can try using 'Global Data Sharing' on those points driven from a common point which is commanded by a time schedule

And there is no need to 'Thrash' the NAEs or ADS

Freddy
Personally, I have never experienced this problem before.
Couple of possible reasons for that problem :
1. The points you are having trouble may be used in other process or interlocks
2. The commands in the schedule may not be setup right.

You can try to just setup an individual schedule for the problem points and see if still happens.

Or you can try using 'Global Data Sharing' on those points driven from a common point which is commanded by a time schedule

And there is no need to 'Thrash' the NAEs or ADS

DX-9100
It sounds like you have the most logical answer if there really is one. He did use all kinds of interlocks, which I questioned in the first place, why not follow what they taught in JCI's training course and use individual scheduled for each item.

He said with OCC, UNOCC & Standby modes it wasn't possible.

As far as me making any modifications at this time. The project is still not officially completed and or closed out. And if I make so much as a set point change JCI starts crying foul; accusing me of sabotaging there programming.

So I only make make safe overrides (No overriding safety's etc..) where I have too when something goes haywire and my superiors jump my case and tell me the hell with with JCI's ignorance for now get that area comfortable we have a 300 people to keep happy.

Fortunately(And believe me its been no easy task) I have been able to educate my superiors to put pressure on the general, mechanical who JCI works for and the engineering firm from allowing JCI to sneak off the job partially completed. Yes I am sure the clock is running out fast but until then. My conscience will not let this go.

Another question was what type of devices they are N2 VMA's, UNT's, AHU's and DX9100's

recently the NAE55 has lost communications with the ADS. But these problems have been occurring way before that happened.

As far as version its 3.1

[freddy-b]

DX-9100
It sounds like you have the most logical answer if there really is one. He did use all kinds of interlocks, which I questioned in the first place, why not follow what they taught in JCI's training course and use individual scheduled for each item.

He said with OCC, UNOCC & Standby modes it wasn't possible.

As far as me making any modifications at this time. The project is still not officially completed and or closed out. And if I make so much as a set point change JCI starts crying foul; accusing me of sabotaging there programming.

So I only make make safe overrides (No overriding safety's etc..) where I have too when something goes haywire and my superiors jump my case and tell me the hell with with JCI's ignorance for now get that area comfortable we have a 300 people to keep happy.

Fortunately(And believe me its been no easy task) I have been able to educate my superiors to put pressure on the general, mechanical who JCI works for and the engineering firm from allowing JCI to sneak off the job partially completed. Yes I am sure the clock is running out fast but until then. My conscience will not let this go.

Another question was what type of devices they are N2 VMA's, UNT's, AHU's and DX9100's

recently the NAE55 has lost communications with the ADS. But these problems have been occurring way before that happened.

As far as version its 3.1

This problem is not rare at all, and for a JCI guy to state they have never seen it, is just plain crazy. All control logic interlock possibility aside..it still happens.

[phantomtech]

DX-9100
It sounds like you have the most logical answer if there really is one. He did use all kinds of interlocks, which I questioned in the first place, why not follow what they taught in JCI's training course and use individual scheduled for each item.

He said with OCC, UNOCC & Standby modes it wasn't possible.

As far as interlocks go they only run once when the input changes state and does not re-command on a power failure or if it somehow is missed.

What I do is the last line in every table is the interlock it self with a value of re-command. And then I will put a delay of say 600 sec for the interlock to run every ten minutes. This makes the interlock act as if it has process time like we had in GPL.

And yes you can schedule Occ, Unooc & Standby if the point is properly mapped.

[buzzman]

DX-9100
It sounds like you have the most logical answer if there really is one. He did use all kinds of interlocks, which I questioned in the first place, why not follow what they taught in JCI's training course and use individual scheduled for each item.

He said with OCC, UNOCC & Standby modes it wasn't possible.

As far as me making any modifications at this time. The project is still not officially completed and or closed out. And if I make so much as a set point change JCI starts crying foul; accusing me of sabotaging there programming.

So I only make make safe overrides (No overriding safety's etc..) where I have too when something goes haywire and my superiors jump my case and tell me the hell with with JCI's ignorance for now get that area comfortable we have a 300 people to keep happy.

Fortunately(And believe me its been no easy task) I have been able to educate my superiors to put pressure on the general, mechanical who JCI works for and the engineering firm from allowing JCI to sneak off the job partially completed. Yes I am sure the clock is running out fast but until then. My conscience will not let this go.

Another question was what type of devices they are N2 VMA's, UNT's, AHU's and DX9100's

recently the NAE55 has lost communications with the ADS. But these problems have been occurring way before that happened.

As far as version its 3.1

Chet,
See if this helps with VMA'sdelete the occ command first and then archive before adding the new point)

The steps shown below are used to define a Multiple Command Object to control the Schedule Attribute (ADI-78) in a VMA controller.

Follow these steps to set up the VMAs Occupancy Schedule Object in the NAE:

1) Select Insert from the Title menu then select Field Point from the drop down menu.
2) For Destination select the proper VMA and if you desire a specific folder under that controller.
3) Under Definition select Manual, then from the Point Type list, select MO.
4) Set the Net Point Type to ADI and the Net Point Address to 78.
5) Give the point a unique name for an Identifier.
6) Set the Number of States to 4 and choose 'Occ Mode 4 States' for state text.
: This will give the 4 states of Unoccupied, Standby, Occupied and No Schedule.
7) Add a schedule referencing the Occupied Schedule Object.
8) Define the occupied/unoccupied times in the Schedule Object.

[Chet1508]

Thanks Buzzman,
I'll pass this along to the factory branch to let then know how to properly setup scheduling

[gbfromsd]

dont ferget yer priorities. overrides go at level 8 and if yer schedule is at level 14 - guess who wins?? The override.

[NINAX]

Thanks Buzzman,
I'll pass this along to the factory branch to let then know how to properly setup scheduling

There you go, problem solved, and now you'll be in love with Naes.

[freddy-b]

Hey thanks for the Schedule lessons.

Never thought of setting them up right!

This happens to Schedules that have been working for years...then one day, they just stop being reliable.
Strange sh*t.

I still think its the Service Call Transmitter at work.

[dx9100]

To: Freddy-b
Why do you think other people are crazy just because they don't see what you see.

I am only commenting from own experience.

Since you are on the so called 'Controls Committee', I thought you would have offered some professional solutions rather than just complaining.

[freddy-b]

To: Freddy-b
Why do you think other people are crazy just because they don't see what you see.

I am only commenting from own experience.

Since you are on the so called 'Controls Committee', I thought you would have offered some professional solutions rather than just complaining.

Ok then you are a liar. Take your pick.

The the ONLY solution is to wipe out the point and schedule..name it something different and start over. And thats a Freaking stupid solution dont you think. They suck......I cant help it if you have blinders on.