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  1. #1

    Confused inexperienced estimator seeks help

    Hi there,

    BACKGROUND: I am 28 and have been involved with HVAC since I was in my early teens, my dad owned a HVAC company. I learned a lot about residential HVAC and was installing systems by age 16 as a lead in a 20 man company and in sales by age 19. Only in residential forced air. with some a/c.

    I went off to college.....then decided it was my best bet to get back into HVAC. well I landed a great job as an estimator at a "oil" company that has a heating division. My problem is that the company is not overly concerned with training me when it comes to boilers and heatpumps. I have sold 1 of each to date.

    MY QUESTION(S): I am finding myself seriously half assing my estimates. I tend to include extra money in the bid to cover stuff I don't know about, and I am really worried about the comfort of the people who I do end up selling to. My specific question is this : aside from taking some real classes somewhere, is there a rule of thumb when sizing boilers? I mean anything has to be better than what I am doing which is basically scouring the internet for posts on someone with a similar sized house and hoping for the best when sizing.....


    Please go easy on me, I know I am a hack at this point but I want to learn However the company doesnt care to send me to classes as they are a big oil company that really only wants to sell oil and sees equipment as a 'necessary evil'

    TYIA
    tinman

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,911
    Twilli says do some studying and keep selling, you ain't the first salesman that didn't know what he was sellin.
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    4,413
    Quote Originally Posted by twilli3967 View Post
    Twilli says do some studying and keep selling, you ain't the first salesman that didn't know what he was sellin.
    Exactly, any installer will tell you that.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,911
    Quote Originally Posted by jimj View Post
    Exactly, any installer will tell you that.

    Twilli says remember nothing happens until a sale is made. Twilli used to be installer
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    4,413
    Quote Originally Posted by twilli3967 View Post
    Twilli says remember nothing happens until a sale is made. Twilli used to be installer
    Bye Twilli's attire he should stay an installer.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,244
    You learn by doing, asking questions, reading all the posts you can on here.

    For sizing equipment, you are doing your customers a disservice if you don't use a load calc program. Have your employer buy HVAC-Calc software, click the link on the tool bar above. Easy to learn and you will be setting customers up with the right sized equipment which will be more comfy and more economical to run. Also should get training in duct design and problems. Look for info on the National Comfort Institute for example.

    Note on boiler sizing, hot water is sized by heat loss of the structure using the above software. Steam systems by connected load. If there is much steam in your area I can point you toward some good resources on it too.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    68,171
    Excluding steam.
    You size a boiler the same way as you size a oil fired hot air furnace.(by the heat loss of the house)
    You also need to check for excess piping gain.

    http://hvaccomputer.com/talkref.asp

    Use that link. Its a load calc program.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Suppy NC
    Posts
    4,513
    spend somme money a get a heat loss program and then all the guess work about what size you need is gone

    now you need to get a few books and learn what extras are needed for boilers

    the program here at the top of the screen is easy and very good and not that expensive. I have it and highly recomend it

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,911
    Quote Originally Posted by jimj View Post
    Bye Twilli's attire he should stay an installer.

    Are you really interested in what Twilli is wearing?
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    4,413
    Quote Originally Posted by twilli3967 View Post
    Are you really interested in what Twilli is wearing?
    I'm afraid to ask.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Toledo, Ohio, United States
    Posts
    12,911
    Twilli sleeps in his coveralls
    No Heat No Cool You need Action Fast

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alberta Canada
    Posts
    2,246

    Don't be so harsh

    Quote Originally Posted by gl00pp View Post
    Hi there,

    MY QUESTION(S): I am finding myself seriously half assing my estimates. I tend to include extra money in the bid to cover stuff I don't know about, and I am really worried about the comfort of the people who I do end up selling to. My specific question is this : aside from taking some real classes somewhere, is there a rule of thumb when sizing boilers? I mean anything has to be better than what I am doing which is basically scouring the internet for posts on someone with a similar sized house and hoping for the best when sizing.....
    tinman

    Probably 60% of salemen don't know anymore than you. Time will give you more experience and you will do fine. Now get back to work and SELL<SELL<SELL


    Saleman- a person male/female that takes a product they know little more than you and sells base on BS and charm.
    Do it right the first time.

  13. #13

    Talking Thanks Guys

    I really appreciate your insight. I D/L the demo of the HVAC calc and it looks cool, I will work on getting it.

    Can someone shed some light on one thing:

    If a 2000 sqft home with forced air needs say a 60k BTU furnace then, why does a 2000 sqft home with hot water need darn near double or say 130k BTU??


    AND, is it going to be more inexpensive to heat with forced air or is there something that makes it about the same???


    THANKS GUYS, this is a cool forum!!!!


    tinman

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