Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 14 to 26 of 29
  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westchester Co, NY
    Posts
    104
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    A HP, with hydronic coil from a boiler, plus a LP furnace?

    It can be done but would be expensive.

    A HP with a air handler, with a hydronic coil would be less up front, and provide you with better savings.
    Beenthere - Maybe my terminology is incorrect...the hydronic coil would come from a high efficency LP boiler... right?

    How much higher (% wise .. Approx) would my upfront installation cost be with this. the cost of electricity in my area is ~18cents.
    Would installing an indirect hot water tank for DHW still be the smart approach?


    Flange - thanks, I am calling around again today to try and find someone that could provide me with what i need

    thanks

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,727
    The hydronic coil would get its heat from the boiler, correct.

    Cost percent wise. Varies with boiler brand, and contractors needs. So I can't make any guess.

    At 18 cents a KW, a heat pump at a COP of 3, would cost $17.60 per million BTUs.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westchester Co, NY
    Posts
    104
    Beenthere - thanks for you ongoing replies - I was curious if you could help me understand how this works from a cost perspective. For arguement sake, lets say my Propane boiler/indirect hot water/SEER 14 AC with all ductwork is coming in at ~20K

    If I am understanding you correctly - I would need all of the above + and additional heat pump ( I have no idea of the true price of heatpumps yet - I am just trying to figure it out from internet pricing) but lets say a its a 2 K more per unit ( need 2) thats another $4K

    How is this more efficient - I still have a huge up front cost of a gas boiler (anywhere from 7-10K). Will still have to pay for propane ( or electricity/oil if i went that road as Aux). Will still have to get the propane tanks installed for Gas, oil tanks installed for Oil

    Am I looking at this wrong - or will the heatpump really afford me that much in savings in my area, given that i will need an Aux.

    you guys seem to be big on this a a good solution - So i am thinking it must be a solution that works....

    Appreciate your help on this again!

    thanks

    PS - the numbers listed are not real numbers - just for example

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,727
    The heat pump, is an upgrade from the A/C. Your not getting extra equipment per say.
    The outdoor unit is the main difference. You won't really see anything different with the indoor equipment.

    So the cost of upgrading to a heat pump is minimal compared to what you described in your original post.

    It could take 3 years, or 5 years to recoup the upgrade cost if oil/gas remains at the same current price as today.(slim chance of that)

    It continues to save money every year after that on your heating bill.
    Most areas have several hundred hours of mild heating weather. This is where it saves the most money.

    Those days when its 40 or warmer outside. No reason to use the more expensive gas/oil heat. When the heat pump provides more heat, for the dollar then either of the other fuels do.

    As far as upgrade price. Thats area and contractor dependant.

    But the HP may be able to save 20% or more on your annual heating bill, over just gas/oil alone.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Madison, WI/Cape Coral, FL
    Posts
    6,261
    Quote Originally Posted by doogan123 View Post
    Hello again

    I have started to now zero in on the pricing i am getting for my AC system and spoke today with my HVAC guy. He is proposing a seer 16 system due to the higher efficiency. I am all for efficiency, however the price difference over Seer 14 was significant.

    I am doing a full remodel, Tight construction, 2*6, cellulose insulation, high efficiency budarus Propane boiler, Hydro system.

    I a sure you know the pricing difference as i cannot post them,

    I know this is rather general - but Is it worth paying the extra $$$$$$

    thanks
    If you suceed in tightening your home, you should consider providing year around make-up fresh air ventilation. Having adequate fresh air ventilation/natural infiltration in green grass climates during wet cool weathers requires supplemental dehumidification. For high efficiency homes, a whole house ventilating dehumidifier is a very practical system to provide fresh when needed and dehumidification to maintain <50%RH throughout the home regard during wet cool weather. Brands like Honeywell, Ultra-Aire, etc. are available. Regards TB
    Bear Rules: Keep our home <50% RH summer, controls mites/mold and very comfortable.
    Provide 60-100 cfm of fresh air when occupied to purge indoor pollutants and keep window dry during cold weather. T-stat setup/setback +8 hrs. saves energy
    Use +Merv 10 air filter. -Don't forget the "Golden Rule"

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westchester Co, NY
    Posts
    104
    Quote Originally Posted by teddy bear View Post
    If you suceed in tightening your home, you should consider providing year around make-up fresh air ventilation. Having adequate fresh air ventilation/natural infiltration in green grass climates during wet cool weathers requires supplemental dehumidification. For high efficiency homes, a whole house ventilating dehumidifier is a very practical system to provide fresh when needed and dehumidification to maintain <50%RH throughout the home regard during wet cool weather. Brands like Honeywell, Ultra-Aire, etc. are available. Regards TB
    Teddy Bear - Thanks for your comments. I am considering a low cost HRV addon for fresh air.

    Been there - Last question on this (I promise ) Can i save cost in installing a lower cost Gas system If I go with a heatpump , of is this just not a smart way to stay within budget. Right now i am looking at the budarus GB 142 which is high efficiency, and probabally highest cost

    Thanks again everyone

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,727
    The heat pump will still save you money on your heating bill.

    So you don't have to get a 90+ mod/con boiler to save money on heating cost.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by doogan123 View Post
    Am I looking at this wrong - or will the heatpump really afford me that much in savings in my area, given that i will need an Aux.
    Cost of 1 million btu's of heat:

    Heat pump w/electricity at $.18 per kw-hr, C.O.P. (Coeff of Perf) = 3.5 at 40F ambient
    (1,000,000 / 3413) x .18 / 3.5
    = $15.06

    Propane furnace with propane at $3 per gallon, 90% efficient furnace
    (1,000,000 / 91,000) x 3 / .9
    = $36.63

    The heat pump costs 243% less to run than the propane furnace (36.63/15.06). Insert your own costs and efficiencies for a more representative #.

    As the ambient temp increases from 40F, the COP increases and the heat pump is even cheaper to run.

    Good luck.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Westchester Co, NY
    Posts
    104
    Thanks Gary for the math - I have to wonder why people do not install these in my area. I am now set in getting this installed. I cannot thank you guys enough for the advise and twisting my arm to understand Heat pumps.

    Unfortunatly - the questions keep coming. I have seen that most of the "hybrid systems" that come packaged use a furnace - which i don't want.

    So - what make of heat pumps should i be looking at. I would think that i should go with the most efficient - one that will perform down as low as possible. I have seen the halowdel - I am not sure i would go for that since its so new. I am more of a tried and tested kinda guy.

    thanks again

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,727
    The brand is not as important as the installer.
    After all. You want the company that installs it. To support it.

    So use the brand they are familar with.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Atlanta area
    Posts
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by doogan123 View Post
    ... I have seen that most of the "hybrid systems" that come packaged use a furnace - which i don't want. ...
    It's not that furnaces are "packaged" so much as recommended. You can get just an air handler instead of a furnace. But only people in the warmest of climates don't buy furnaces or other "supplemental" heat. I live in north Georgia. I want a furnace for when it gets below 40 or so. I also would never try to sell this house without a furnace --- buyers would walk away. I know you'll want a furnace of some kind in NY.

    My understanding is that if you got a ginormous heat pump with enough capacity to fully heat the house on the coldest days, it would then be too big during summertime when used to cool.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,923
    If you have a boiler, then a furnace is not necessary. Just have a company install a hot water coil in the supply outlet of a heat pump air handler and you have the best of all energy usages available.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by doogan123 View Post
    So - what make of heat pumps should i be looking at. I would think that i should go with the most efficient - one that will perform down as low as possible.
    Regardless of brand, you want a heat pump that produces its btu rated capacity at 47F ambient (the "high heat" rating temperature). Anotherwords, a 4 ton unit should be 48,000 btu and not 44,000 btu. Some combinations are weak on heating btu's. You need all the heating btu's from the heat pump that you can get.

    The lower rating temp for a heat pump is 17F, but you will be on supplimentary heat at this low of an ambient temperature.

    You want a heat pump with a heating efficiency rating close to a 9 HSPF (Heating Seasonal Performance Factor).

    FYI: Heat pumps do not produce the hot 120F air of a furnace. They provide temps in the mid-90's, and their output temps drop with decreasing ambient temps. Also, the life of a heat pump is less than straight a/c because they run in all seasons.

    Take care.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event