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  1. #40
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    Jul 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrbenny View Post
    He's asking for some additional input.
    If hes already done the job himself, why ask for additional input on the time it takes? He already knows. Just like we tell DIY homeowners no pricing, we cant tell this guy how long a job should take. Different situations take different amounts of time. Anyone who does commercial/industrial should know this. some jobs go faster than others, its just the way the business is. This guy should know this. Maybe this tech was just slower because he hasnt done this work before or only done it a couple times, did he talk about that?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrbenny View Post
    It's called not being a cowboy and making sure you're not jumping for no reason.
    This guy is trying to be a cowboy. He said he was a manager in a new company, now hes talking about union jobs taking longer and he used to do them so much faster. Hes looking to clean up shop over there, if it needs it or not.


    Quote Originally Posted by jrbenny View Post
    Try it once in a while. Might find you're not so damn smart after all.
    LOL try reading between the lines, Might find out you're not so damn smart after all.

  2. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
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    Louisville, KY
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    12,181
    I know that I don't know it all.

    I ask for help.

    I also don't come here acting like an ass towards someone that is asking for input.

    Try actually reading the post instead of reading between the lines.
    Perhaps you should have read the instructions before calling.

  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrbenny View Post
    I know that I don't know it all.

    I ask for help.

    I also don't come here acting like an ass towards someone that is asking for input.

    Try actually reading the post instead of reading between the lines.
    I dont know it all either and i also ask for help.... often

    I read the post. here are the cliff notes for you

    New manager thinks union jobs take longer
    He used to do them so much faster when he was non-union
    wants idea from other people on how long it should take.
    He wont tell us how long he thinks it should take because he us unsure of himself.
    thinks tech wasted time but no proof so he has to go on the internet to MAYBE hear what he wants.



    **** if im wrong about this guy im sorry, I dont think i am though. We all know things come off different sometimes when typing it on the internet.

  4. #43
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    May 2001
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    Western Wa
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    1,833
    I'll put my money on slow and steady.

    I've seen enough of Mr. Zoom.
    God Bless our Veterans

    God Bless the USA

  5. #44
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    Jul 2006
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    just wondering, you said your guys had been out there before on another compressor changing valve plates and now this one.

    what was the real problem that caused all of this mess?

  6. #45
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    Nov 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy S. View Post
    I'll put my money on slow and steady.

    I've seen enough of Mr. Zoom.
    When you are low on your time in the bid, and you force a worker to meet your artificial deadline, safety is often compromised as a fear or retribution makes that worker cut corners and act more impulsively. As if that were not bad enough, you can end up with a situation that requires a second visit to correct a problem that would have been far more economical to correct (or, prevent) during the initial visit.

    As the saying goes, why is there always enough time to fix it later, but never enough time to do it right the first time?

    If you let each tech find their own speed that brings the best results, the lack of callbacks will more than pay for that in reduced cost, less stress, and better planning of future schedules.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

    RSES CMS, HVAC Electrical Specialist

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  7. #46
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    Sep 2006
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    Ohio
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    Some of you guys think that jim2005 shouldn't be asking this question, but I don't see any thing wrong with it. I think he is trying to get an idea of how long the average guy would take to do the job so he can estimate jobs better.
    Jim2005 said that union jobs take longer than non-union and well I tend to agree with him. I have worked for non-union and now work in a union shop and alot of my jobs take longer now. But there is good reason for this. When I worked for non-union, I was forced to take short-cuts and would often not take any breaks or lunch. Now with a union shop, I always do the job right and safely. This is why I like where I work, you can do a job and not worry about a call back because of some short-cut you had to take. I'm not saying all non-union shops make their techs take short-cuts and all union shops don't want their techs to take short-cuts, but in my case, this is why some jobs take longer as a union tech.

  8. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by hands View Post
    Some of you guys think that jim2005 shouldn't be asking this question, but I don't see any thing wrong with it. I think he is trying to get an idea of how long the average guy would take to do the job so he can estimate jobs better.
    Jim2005 said that union jobs take longer than non-union and well I tend to agree with him. I have worked for non-union and now work in a union shop and alot of my jobs take longer now. But there is good reason for this. When I worked for non-union, I was forced to take short-cuts and would often not take any breaks or lunch. Now with a union shop, I always do the job right and safely. This is why I like where I work, you can do a job and not worry about a call back because of some short-cut you had to take. I'm not saying all non-union shops make their techs take short-cuts and all union shops don't want their techs to take short-cuts, but in my case, this is why some jobs take longer as a union tech.
    Yes. The quality and safety of a job, taking into account the variables of a group of technicians (thought processes, skills, etc) is directly proportional to the amount of time spent on that job. Try to work too quickly, and you can see safety, morale, and productivity suffer. Work too slowly, and profits suffer. The key is to encourage the tech to find that happy medium, using training, tools, and praise for a job well done.

    Union or non-union, you are supervising humans, so this will always apply.
    [Avatar photo from a Florida training accident. Everyone walked away.]
    2 Tim 3:16-17

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  9. #48
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    Nov 2001
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    east kansas
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    My brother in law gave me advice once.

    Quote the job based on the ability of the person doing the job, not on how you can do it.
    Beware of advice given by some guy on the Internet.

  10. #49
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    Aug 2008
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    Lansing, MI
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    When I first read the question, my immediate thought was this was a ten hour job. Some of the guys brought up some good points about things that may happen on the job. The big question in my mind is what caused the problem in the first place. If that is known, or if is made clear in the bid that additional repairs may be needed based on what the technician finds then you should be covered. If you are sure that the repairs will solve the problem then I would stick with my 10 hr number. I think that the 12 hr quote was very reasonable.

    Honestly, the recovery of an 06E will not take very long if the compressor can be valved off. Also, the oil change should help to speed up the evacuation. You would not have to worry about an chance of moisture or refrigerant being trapped in the oil.

  11. #50
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    Dec 2007
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    Midwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim2005 View Post
    I appreciate many of those that read the question and answered. Those that answered the question brought up some good points and I have thought about what was mentioned.
    A few others need to go back to school and learn how to comprehend what you may read or just read more thoroughly, enough said.

    The job was bid at 12hr. I, yes I have completed the job in 10hr’s to include painting the compressor when finished (attention to the details is important). The tech finished the job in 17hr, he did not have any problems, said the job went smoothly.

    Back history; the job was originally bid at 16hr but the customer questioned the job because another compressor, a couple of months ago, had the same work done by another tech in 10hr, so I had a hard time justifying a job that is now getting close to doubling in price from the previous job. So I drop it down to 12hr giving the tech 2 more hours than the previous tech/previous job.

    This shop has had a salesmen (salesmen is plural) in the service manager position for over 10 years. Those in management did not know how long things should take (my opinion follows) so the techs have been milking the jobs. I am trying to not say to these techs that I can do it faster to many times, that would piss me off if I was still in the field, But they are milking the jobs. These guys seem to be thinking that taking an hour here or there is no big deal but it hurting the bottom line, and I am old school so I also think they a stealing from the company.

    I mentioned union only because in my experience union jobs seem to go longer than the jobs I and other non-union techs seem to do. So I thought “union” was an important factor of figuring out the hours for this job, was I was wrong? The job did come in around 2 days as many mentioned. I am still under the opinion that time was wasted.

    Again I thank those that have done this job and have taken the time to give me there opinions. I also thank those that mentioned good points.
    My first thought is that you have a lot to learn about managing a service department.

    Here is a tidbit of advice to consider. When you had the converstaion with the owner of the equipment you should have been of the mindset to explain and justify why your 16 hour quote was the right quote. You don't let the customer dictate to you how long it should take you to do a job.

    A good service manager would have explained why the repair costs are what they are. 16 hours wasn't much more than 10 and you could have easily justified it. Apparently there is a reason the guy that did it before isn't doing it this time so why bother with how long it took him ? Don't let the customer even make that reference , you should have been able to discount that and you should have been ready to discount that.

    Sometimes you have to anticiapte questions from customers and be prepared to answer them. Its not the length of time the tech took to do the job that is hurting your bottom line it is the manager that is willing to do a job for what the customer tells him it should be done for instead of what the job actually takes that is hurting your bottom line.


    Obviously you need to get better at quoting work and working with the techs and customers. This may not be a good position for you to have taken. You're inexperience and inablility to manage is showing on this thread.

    Why on earth would you quote a repair like that in 1/2 days anyway ? If you had it right at 16 hours making it 12 added more inefficincies because now you have a split a day up for a technician and that is incredibly inefficient. Never make or accept a half day repair. All quoted work should be made in full day increments. Never , never, quote a half day for anything.

  12. #51
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    Nov 2003
    Location
    Rochester, New York
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    392
    I say it's a 2 day job... SATURDAY, SUNDAY for time 1/2 and Double time. Seriously though, I'm in a union shop where safety comes first. If it takes extra time to do things safely, then so be it. Ladder tied off, harness on elevated equipment, hot work permit ect all this takes TIME. It will cost more for injuries than a few hours of extra time. IMHO

    Please don't compromise peoples safety for profit.

  13. #52
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    Dec 2006
    Location
    philadelphia pa
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    171
    jim2005, couple of questions for you. if you were non-union for so long , why did you take a job at a union shop? you never said in the original post if the heads were pulled to check for additional damage. not to mention what caused the problem in the first place. so, going with what was posted, sounds like you really don't know what is wrong. but that is beside the point. sounds to me like your looking for amunition to throw the guy under the bus. your a pr*ck and i'm glad i don't work for you

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