I appreciate many of those that read the question and answered. Those that answered the question brought up some good points and I have thought about what was mentioned.
A few others need to go back to school and learn how to comprehend what you may read or just read more thoroughly, enough said.
The job was bid at 12hr. I, yes I have completed the job in 10hr’s to include painting the compressor when finished (attention to the details is important). The tech finished the job in 17hr, he did not have any problems, said the job went smoothly.
Back history; the job was originally bid at 16hr but the customer questioned the job because another compressor, a couple of months ago, had the same work done by another tech in 10hr, so I had a hard time justifying a job that is now getting close to doubling in price from the previous job. So I drop it down to 12hr giving the tech 2 more hours than the previous tech/previous job.
This shop has had a salesmen (salesmen is plural) in the service manager position for over 10 years. Those in management did not know how long things should take (my opinion follows) so the techs have been milking the jobs. I am trying to not say to these techs that I can do it faster to many times, that would piss me off if I was still in the field, But they are milking the jobs. These guys seem to be thinking that taking an hour here or there is no big deal but it hurting the bottom line, and I am old school so I also think they a stealing from the company.
I mentioned union only because in my experience union jobs seem to go longer than the jobs I and other non-union techs seem to do. So I thought “union” was an important factor of figuring out the hours for this job, was I was wrong? The job did come in around 2 days as many mentioned. I am still under the opinion that time was wasted.
Again I thank those that have done this job and have taken the time to give me there opinions. I also thank those that mentioned good points.
One other lil tidbit I'll add in about how I bid some jobs (like this one)...
I generally guesstamate by the half day. If I think it'll take me 10 hours, I'll round it up to 12 to make it half a day. if it's 9, I'll rethink it really hard and see if there's a way I can get it done in 8.
Not sure why, but that seems to work out best. Besides, if I happen to get done early, like other's have said, that $$ can be refunded. Or if I need to clean my van, I have a few extra minutes (not hours, maybe 30 minutes) to clean it and get paid.
"If you call that hard work, a koala’s life would look heroic."
So to answer the OP question, I would say two days. And it sounds like you are being unrealistic. What if all the things that could go wrong actually do? If they don't (need more time)you sell that to the customer by "giving them something back".
I did this job on some little 06Ds which were on a roof (thru the space to fixed ladder)and I would say 2 days is minimum, and IS optimistic.
And our area OSHA gang was already on the warpath, and in the last two weeks a highway construction worker died (falling) and a utility worker got electrocuted, so they're going to be rabid about fall protection and arc flash protection.
So I'm asking, are they rabid around your way, and would that make a difference too??? Just asking
Last edited by The Doctor; 08-15-2008 at 07:44 AM.
It's great to be alive and pumping oxygen!
He's asking for some additional input.
Originally Posted by y7turbo
It's called not being a cowboy and making sure you're not jumping for no reason.
Try it once in a while. Might find you're not so damn smart after all.
Perhaps you should have read the instructions before calling.
Same here, 8 hours plus time for PU/DEL. Why do you have to return the valve plates? Even under warranty Carrier usually lets us field-scrap them.
Originally Posted by TAC Service
Make sure that you have the tool to pull out the pressure relief valve or a humongous screw driver.
So you pick up materials, lug up your tools, reclaim refrigerant properly, perform the work, evacuate the system correctly, paint the compressor, clean up area, clean up tools, and do start up in ten hours. Well, you are at the top of the trade and should be proud. Not everyone is perfect, and two days is a very realistic timeframe. I personally dont bill my clients in two hour increments, four hours minimum, so that would equate to twelve at the least.
The two day figure seems good, as an estimate.
Sounds like it came out within reason.
I'd be interested in how you feel that time was wasted.
God Bless our Veterans
God Bless the USA
Now here is the heart of the matter. I cannot rememember when I didn't regret giving in to a customer in this way. Maybe because when it bites you in the ass, which it always seem to do, it's such a sting as opposed to just missing an estimate because you forgot something. IMHO I would not have come off the two day estimate for the customer. I know all situations are different and all that. But there a whole lot of sales pitches I can come up with to justify my price, when in fact it is the right price, which 16 hours is in this case. There is inherent risk to any bid service job and you cannot just back off the price so easily. Not to be critical of you, it's just I've been down that road before.
Originally Posted by jim2005
Also one rule of sales is never give without getting. So you could say, I'll do this one in ten hours for you but "give a service contract", or " ok but sign that quote for such and such I sent you last month".
Outside of that in terms of what should the job take, you have to worry about the tech being slow because he gave some tool to some other tech, the dispathcer calls him off to run a hot call, the vendor sends you the wrong gasket, the engineer didn't unlock the door, yada yada yada. That crap hits you and you think about the time you gave back and smoke rolls out of your ears.
Good luck and wlecome to the other side!
thats an 8 hours job, probably the union cat took one hour lunch, several breaks and shoot the crap with anyone willing to listen, welcome to the union world, enjoy your hair while you can
I would have said 8 also, but I still under estimate things more than I like. So I would think 10 – 12 would be reasonable. And just to even things out, had a co-worker at a non union shop, who was caught twice sleeping in his van. And had complaints from several customers about how much time he spent in the van, out in their parking lots. So having someone wasting time is universal.
For those of you who think you can do this job CORRECTLY in eight hours I say bravo. But remember you are not always the man on the job. to carry all of the tools, parts, reclaim cylinder etc up to the roof, and then back down its two hours. Setting up the reclaim and getting out the gas one half, nut and bolt work say one and one half including scraping gaskets, changing contactors three quarters, evacuation...depends, oil change, waiting for elevator both ways, finding parking and loading/unloading tools, this is a long day to do everything right with no stopppage, and if everything goes perfect. Two days is the right number in any other scenario. No one has talked about lockout/tagout, start up, and verification. Is this flooding back and thats what broke the valves in the first place? Do you care after changing valve plates? I hope so. I stand by the two day estimate, and if one of the other local contractors wants to do it for one go for it......call us when you want it fixed the right way.
Now that you cut hours once for this cust. they will try it again learn the words( NOT TO EXCEED) in your quote.
You guys that boast about doing it in 8 hours crack me up. Who are you trying to impress? Do you think that the customer or your Boss will give a damn about you when you get closer to retirement age and your back is hurting, your knees are shot, hips are arthritic, etc, etc.
I am not saying this job couldn't be done in less than two days, but why try? Take time to do the job right, and enjoy your work.
I have been there, done that on non-union jobs, you bust your ass so you look better than the other guy who took X hours to do the same job last time. Or you bust ass cuz your boss is a Richard Head, and you don't want to get a raft of Shiite from him, cuz he did a "similar" job in half the time it took you.
Where does it get you in the long run? Your Mental and physical health is sacrificed, so your boss can get a new boat,or car, house, beach house, or Fill in the blank.
At our company we (techs) bid our own jobs, so we dictate how many hours are sold.
The saleman really doesn't get involved in parts or hours. So if we under estimate the hours it takes we (the techs) usually take it in the shorts.
If the customer doesn't like our price, they can go to cheap charley and then we usually end up doing the work again anyway. It might be a year later, but customers usually come around after learning the hard way that cheaper is usually not better.
I guess the point is : Sell quality, not Quantity. Unless, you are in a large enough market that repeat business is not needed. Then, I guess just blow and go, As*holes and elbows, get in and get out, get your money while you can.