Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 14 to 26 of 28
  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    254
    Ya mean put 10"-12" (8" ducts now at LR+BR) ducts and HUGE registers on my living room wall that will look like a freaking office building?

    Get over myself? You know how big those will look on the wall? Office building size.
    Gymnasium size. You really think I'm going to upsize to that?

    It's not the cooling I am concerned with. It's the limitations of quieting this system with
    a small condo hallway HVAC closet. I was merely relating my attempts to quiet it down some.

    The physical aspects of having motorized machinery. I already posted in earlier posts how I
    successfully lenghtened the short duct from plenum to LR register. That helped a lot.

    I related also that you better buy totally neutral odor sound proofing on an air return.
    I'm just gonna use plenum board after learning the hard way.

    Anyways..that's where I'm at now. Lol...getting there.

    As a product...ductboard (plenum board) is the only neutral odor material suitable for
    attempting to block or absorb sound for close quarters air return. Net sites don't tell you if their foam or
    whatever sound absorbing/blocking product is odor neutral. None are. I found this out the hard way.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    cincinnati ohio
    Posts
    2,020

    air noise

    I think what everyone is saying is that its a combo of everything to reduce the noise . Its a bad ideal to strat with . Bob h
    My avatar is a picture of a Goodman Silencer .....These were commonly used in Goodman country ....Photos by hvac tech ( PaysonHVAC )

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    254
    Granted. I had it really really quiet....lol, untill I stepped out for two hours and returned and said...what the hell is that smell?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    254
    Granted. I had it really really quiet....lol, untill I stepped out for two hours and returned and said...what the hell is that smell?

    I ripped out the Home Depot fiber board from my return cavity area...same with that 80% recycled cotton sound proofing material.

    I'm going with neutral no odor plenum board.

    Just curious, I wonder if there IS any sound proofing padding, material (besides plenum board/duct board) that
    is totally odor free. I doubt it.

    They sure don't tell you when you order that stuff off the net. Damn pricey too.

    I fully realize that most of that type material usually goes behind drywall or is not used for air returns with the furnace 6" above.
    Lol, I know that now. Expensive lesson learned. HAHAH...besides the smell..damn I got it quiet.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,283
    I guess you're just a tough nut to crack.

    You aren't relegated to huge-ass registers if the supply ducts are upsized.

    You can have more than one register installed, with the airflow divided between the two registers. Each register can be smaller than the one register you have now that is blowing like a hurricane.

    Line the return pocket with duct board. It won't stink and it's safe to use.

    And tone down the rhetoric. Plenty of folks on this board have been more than helpful. It won't last much longer if you keep transferring your frustrations with your project into personal disparagements.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    25

    Thanks Shophound

    Quote Originally Posted by shophound View Post
    I guess you're just a tough nut to crack.

    You aren't relegated to huge-ass registers if the supply ducts are upsized.

    You can have more than one register installed, with the airflow divided between the two registers. Each register can be smaller than the one register you have now that is blowing like a hurricane.

    Line the return pocket with duct board. It won't stink and it's safe to use.

    And tone down the rhetoric. Plenty of folks on this board have been more than helpful. It won't last much longer if you keep transferring your frustrations with your project into personal disparagements.
    Shophound, I agree...many folks have been helped with FREE advice from the pros on this site .....those posters who want to rail on others should be banned ....

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    254
    The last few posts from me have been anything but dispairaging.
    The most noise is coming from the HVAC closet in my lap and my return
    cavity area, both of which I am addressing.

    The airflow noise isn't that much an issue since I extended the ductwork to
    ease the LR register blower motor noise. It used to be 2 feet from the plenum. I ran it back 4 feet with a gentle U-Turn back to that LR register.

    I've come to terms with the limitations of a HVAC closet in close proximity.

    Now I'm just counting my losses having tried to quiet it with odorous sound absorbing/blocking materials. It got quiet alright, but at a smell cost.

    I'm on the only track now that is prudent. Neutral smelling ductboard/plenum board at return cavity...and some more in the HVAC hall closet.

    The AC is fine once I learned to run it more and get the core temp of my condo down. Air noise is still somewhat strong at some other vents. There
    are only 5 total in my condo. It's tolerable I suppose. I tell ya tho...my system has a healthy push of air. I may add a vent somewhere in my living area in the future.

    5 of the best minds here could get together at my condo and do whatever and still explain to me the limitations of having a furnace in close proximity.

    No big deal. Watch out about sound absorbing/blocking stuff on the net. All of it reeks, heh.
    Not a big deal if your dealing with a large walk in HVAC room, a big deal if a small closet.

    I pulled all that **** out...too smelly for a small hallway closet. Plenum board all the way now. That lesson only cost me about $200+. Soundproofing materials ain't cheap.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    1,634
    Quote Originally Posted by jrbenny View Post
    His point...

    Your duct system is undersized. He lives with the same set up but the ducts are sized correctly.

    Get over yourself.
    Exactly. You'll note that while I questioned the size of the system installed, I also said it might be correct. I know better than to definitively say it is or isn't without seeing the space in person or having blueprints and doing a heat load calc.

    I stand by my suggestion to increase your supply vent sizes. I'm sorry, but I can't change the laws of physics, and that's what you're running up against. Restrictions in airflow and increased air velocity cause noise. What is the static pressure on the supply and return sides of that unit? I prefer to never see them above 0.2" for quiet installs.

    Large air vents don't have to be ugly. If done right, they can accent the room. Best way to look at air vent is square inches of surface area. Once you've figured out the square inches needed, you can shape it practically any way you want.

    Case in point, the kitchen at my other condo. By the calcs, I needed 196 sq in of vent surface area to cover the room quietly. It's a 35 year old high-rise building, so low ceilings (7-8') and solid-pour concrete walls/ceilings means everything has to be run in soffits. Good luck trying to fit a 14"x14" vent in there. So, this was my solution:



    Closeup:


    That vent's only 4" tall, 36" long. There's a smaller one at the other end of the kitchen (4"x12"). They deliver the CFM needed, quietly and discretely. At the same time they added a pleasant visual element and somewhat of an optical illusion. The length of the long vent makes the eye think the room is longer than it really is. And yes, linear bar grilles are more commonly found in "freaking office buildings." I think they look far better than what is normally installed in residential construction.

    These vents actually became a godsend. The balcony has been glassed in, which invariably meant I want to cool it. At the same time I didn't want to build large soffits through existing rooms to run ductwork. Instead, we used these vents with a 15 degree deflection, aimed at the ceiling. We used a similar, but larger crown moulding to what's pictured here around the windows as a deflector. In essence, we created an air curtain. Even with the windows open, the air curtain does an excellent job of keeping heat & humidity outside.

    I will take offence to being called an audiophile -- there's no snake oil in my systems. I'm an audio & broadcast engineer by trade, designed and built numerous broadcast and recording facilities, have done audio work for many large national touring acts, and design and maintain sound & video systems for large venues.

    I ended up studying HVAC and refrigeration after running into trouble with HVAC contractors not understanding that I absolutely NEED truly quiet systems for broadcast studios. Their idea of "quiet" wasn't anything even close to what I needed.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    254
    The register in the kitchen looks very very nice...never even seen ones like those.

    I was only kinda freaking about bigger ducts and butt ugly huge square vents like you see in some office building.

    That would like...bring down the value of my condo somewhat, in my opinion.

    Bigger or...another duct would ease the overly healthy air flow I have.

    I just don't want a huge register grate above my couch...that might look freakish.

    Thanks for the pics. What kinda of registers do you have in your LR...living area?

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    1,634
    Quote Originally Posted by caslon View Post
    The register in the kitchen looks very very nice...never even seen ones like those.

    I was only kinda freaking about bigger ducts and butt ugly huge square vents like you see in some office building.

    That would like...bring down the value of my condo somewhat, in my opinion.

    Bigger or...another duct would ease the overly healthy air flow I have.

    I just don't want a huge register grate above my couch...that might look freakish.

    Thanks for the pics. What kinda of registers do you have in your LR...living area?
    Linear bar grilles throughout the house, with one exception, a tiny 6"x6" two-direction ceiling diffuser in the guest bath which had 7' ceilings. Wasn't about to build a soffit in there. Even that diffuser's considered to be a "commercial" diffuser. I don't remember the exact model #'s off the top of my head, but the linear bars are from Titus HVAC, CT-series. The ones pictured and installed are the "pencil proof" spacing, done for purely aesthetic reasons (trying to make a 35 year old condo appear modern). Going with this spacing forced us to use a larger vent because the increased spacing = less free flowing air. The 6"x6" would be a TDC-xxx. You might think the TDC is a "butt ugly square" diffuser, but at this small of a size, it looks quite nice and sits flush to the ceiling.

    I'd suggest you browse their offerings: http://www.titus-hvac.com. They have an extensive collection of performance data listed including noise criterion (NC) data. Their extensive performance data's why I keep spec'ing out their products. I know without a shadow of a doubt how the systems are going to perform before the first component is ordered. There's other manufacturers out there as well.

    I will caution you 'though, commercial HVAC diffusers, especially linear bars, aren't cheap. Expect a bit of sticker shock if it's the first time you've priced them out. That said, they can actually enhance the aesthetics of the room if done right. Case in point (wish I could take credit for this one):


    Curved Linear slot diffusers along the bottom edge, curved linear bar grilles on the side-wall of the curve.

    The next time you're in a better office building, hotel, or retail space, take a look to the ceiling and upper walls and see what people have installed. Just because it's a "commercial" product doesn't mean you can't install it in residential. There's commercial recessed lights & a commercial lighting control system in my home as well. Ended up going with the commercial stuff when I couldn't find what I wanted on the resi side of things.

    As you can see, I've encountered similar noise challenges and can say without a shadow of a doubt that what you're trying to achieve is entirely possible. As to whether it's cost-effective, that's a whole other story. Then again, maybe silence really is golden. It is to me.

    Start with getting your airflow issues resolved. This is where the majority of HVAC system noise tends to come from and fortunately is one of the least expensive to tame. And be glad you don't have a water-source heat pump in that closet instead. Trying to knock down the rumbling from one of those beasts is a major pain.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    254
    Nice alternatives. Not sure if what you posted relates to me in the real world,

    I appreciate your thoughts. I've got an 8" flex duct to my LR which I mosied
    around and back because it was a flex duct right off the plenum to my LR register.

    I put a bunch of smelly high priced cotton foam and Home Depot duct board at my large return cavity below my "In your lap" small HVAC closet.

    I ripped it out. I also tore off the smelly closed cell non-formaldyhyde that was lining my small hallway closet.

    The AC cools things down ok now, now that I let it do it's thing. 24/7.

    I'm not sure what I'm getting from you about duct work. Let me
    freaking get that smelly stuff I stupidly put in...out.
    To all here...no net site selling sound absorbing/blocking material will inform you of its odor.

    I suppose I could maybe use another vent. I need to show you pics.

    I'm not putting in 36" long vents like you posted. No offence. Forget that.

    Dash and BeenThere said to use plenum board. It's not the greatest of
    sound absorbing material...but at least it's neutral in odor.

    I'm going with their suggestions.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    caslon has a gas furnace,fan at the return inlet,tpafl has an air handler,coil at the return inlet,big difference.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,283
    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post
    caslon has a gas furnace,fan at the return inlet,tpafl has an air handler,coil at the return inlet,big difference.
    True that. Gas furnace makes for more blower noise on the return side. Air handler makes for more blower noise on the supply side; very noticeable with metal ducts.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image