New hydronic system piping layout
Well I am finally going to attempt to install my system. I am using an OWB and will have two main zones that will run off heat exchangers. The first zone will be for my house and I (unless I am im influenced otherwise) have decided to use the Ultra Fin hanging radiant system which requires no mixing (hopefully) and then for the rest of the house I will be putting in a combination of panel radiators (if my pocket book can afford it). The house system will be a home run distribution system with the Ultra Fin and one zone of the panel radiators (in the upstairs) controlled by thermostats controlling their valves. The next zone will be a couple of panel radiators in series with TRVs on them. The second main zone will be at another building with in-slab radiant heat that will require mixing. With all the great input I have received on this site ...and then with spending a lot of time reading Sieganthaler’s book hopefully I am coming at this as somewhat of an educated novice now. What I would like is feedback on my piping scheme which I have attached. I still have to size the pumps, radiators etc. I know what what my heat loss calculations are and will be working on all that next ...but I do not want to make any mistakes here so again any feedback on my layout would be appreciated. If I am way off base I want to know! RH
Ya know, I looked at this post, looked at your other posts...I'm a radiant only contractor. I think I understand your passion for this, and your desire to learn about this and do this work and enjoy the results....but...
There's lots 'o rules about diy info here, and I agree with all of them.
Please, find a Pro. Ask your neighbors, look at NATE, the RPA, just find a pro, because that diagram, like your other posts, would probably put heat in your space. Would it do it reliably? Probably not. Safely, no. Would it be as energy efficient and as comfortable if a pro did it? The differenece would be night and day. You're going to go to the school of hard knocks to ever get anything like that to ever work like it SHOULD work.
I feel for ya, dude, but that ain't gonna work. If you go ahead and do it anyway, someone is gonna make a lot of money off of you to come out and fix it when you're done, and it won't look anywhere near that diagram.
You want it to work, find someone that knows flow. Otherwise, plan on spending mucho $$$$$$$$$$ on getting it right.
I may get slapped for this, but some pro's may possibly help you with the design and let you do the grunt work.
I'm not one of those pro's.
Sorry about that.
I would like to find a pro guys ....and I have tried. There is literally ....and I mean absolutely nobody down here in East Tennessee that I have found doing this stuff ....so I have no choice but DIY. I know this site favors the pros and I understand that ....but so far "no can do" down here. So let's see ...a lot of that diagram ...although not the best drawing in the world is taken from Sieganthaler's book ...as I have been told ...the bible of the industry ...and it is not going to work??? I guess I could just give up and put a water to air heat exchanger in my current HVAC plenum in conjunction with the OWB like a ton of people have done down here and be done with it. I know that works because I have talked to a lot of owners of OWBs with them ....but it just seems to me that a lot of the advantages of hydronic heating are missed then. So with both of your input ..I guess that is what I should do. I respect your opinions....but I have tackled a lot of things in life I have not done before but with the proper studying and some input from others they have usually worked out. I have to admit I am having second thoughts though with what you have said. Although I was hoping for a little more constructive criticism other than it will not work so forget it. Thx, RH
Improper water control device placement.
You were hoping for a LITTLE constructive criticsm? How about it's ALL wrong. Won't work. No control, wrong pumps, wrong placement, the problems with your heat exchangers wouold take up a thread by itself. There's a million ways to do things in this business, some more elegant than others, that will achieve what you want. That diagram will not work. Your other threads/thoughts/ideas are a wild stab at best. I guarantee you'll wind up spending more money your way than a pro's way, a ton more.
It's not a question of personal preference here, what you have won't work.
Like I said, it MIGHT put some heat in your space. I don't care that you copied stuff out of Siegenthalers book, you copied it wrong and you missed the point. It's not a matter of moving this pipe here, or running that tube over there, it's all wrong, ain't gonna work, you ain't even in the same state, let alone ball park.
FIND A PRO. They are out there. My gut feeling is economics have something to do with this whole deal. Spend the money. Spend 1/3 the time looking for a pro that you spent on coming up with this idea and you'll find one.You'll have an impressive system that is quiet, efficient, and will be something that will last the life of the house. I'd love to help ya, but a few pointers on a forum is not gonna make that system work.
The moderators can please delete this if inappropriate...
Go to radiantpanelassociation.org. Click on "find a contractor". Click on your state. Click on contractor again. Click on "complete directory". There's one in Cookeville, Kingsport and my buddies town, Memphis, which I know is far from you. Worst case, call the Memphis guy, maybe he has a pal in your neck of the woods.
Go to natex.org. Clickon "find a contractor" Punch in your zip code. Over 100 different contractors came up in the Eastern part of Tenn. ONE of them has a radiant guy.
The Knight boiler is my secod boiler choice (I prefer Buderus) but go to
knightheatingboiler.com. Click on "homeowner" Click on "find a contractor"
They're in Tennessee. They will have somebody by you.
Go to heatinghelp.com. I don't know you zip code, and I couldn't find anybody there, but go there, click on resources, click on find a professional, and enter zip codes around you, maybe try your neighboring states. No big deal if you can't find anybody, I'm not listed there, either.
I don't mean to be a smart azz, but if you find a radiant guy, show him your diagram. If he says it's OK, keep looking. When you find a guy who will politely tell you there may be some problems with that sketch, he's the one.
I still think you're diy'ing this 'cause your cheap. Spend the money, you won't regret it. At least offer to pay a service call charge to have someone come out and look.
Somewhere in that pile is someone who will help you and make it right.
Please do this.
Thank you for the links on the contractors, I will pursue this. I will say it again. I have searched the web, the phone books, talked to regular HVAC etc. and have not found anyone knowledgeable about this stuff in my vicinity. I have even talked to the local supplier of HVAC equipment, pumps etc. and they did not understand the concept, did not know of any contractors etc. As far as me being cheap ....come on guys if I were cheap I would not be doing this because the cost of equipment alone makes this an expensive option. For the cost of a water to air heat exchanger and the labor of a regular HVAC contractor to put it in I could be done ....at a fraction of the cost of the radiators alone. RH