410A chaos in 2010 - Page 3
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  1. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    R22 equipment can still be manufactured, it just can't have any R22 in it,
    Not true.

    They may make them and charge them with R22.

    If its virgin R22, the R22 has to have been bought before Jan 1, 2010.
    They may also use recycled R22.
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  2. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atticmonkey777 View Post
    Ive installed six 10ton units this summer so far. All came filled with helium instead of R22.
    A lot of commercial equipment is not filled with refrigerant. The Goodman/Amana 7.5 and 10 ton split systems condensers and heat pumps only have two pounds of refrigerant in them.

    That's for different reasons then the R22 phase out.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Not true.

    They may make them and charge them with R22.

    If its virgin R22, the R22 has to have been bought before Jan 1, 2010.
    They may also use recycled R22.
    I would need to see more on this assertation as it is not what we have been told at manufacturer meetings. What sense does it make to say manufacturers cannot manufacture R22 bearing equipment and then just override that decree. They may as well not have the phase out at all.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  4. #30
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    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    I would need to see more on this assertation as it is not what we have been told at manufacturer meetings. What sense does it make to say manufacturers cannot manufacture R22 bearing equipment and then just override that decree. They may as well not have the phase out at all.
    I agree. May I suggest that if anyone in this discussion has any information that conflicts or indicates changes of the 2010 law, please indicate the source of that information. Let us know where we can find it on the web or whether it is hearsay.
    Last edited by philkawa; 08-10-2008 at 09:14 AM. Reason: incorrect link

  5. #31
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    When I find that link again.
    I'll post it. (I should have bookmarked it)

    Some of the EPA sites, aren't updated as quick as others.

    What is your understanding that the production reduction % is suppose to be in 2010 for R22.

    Many people still think its 65%.

    That was changed in 2007 to 75%.
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  6. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    When I find that link again.
    I'll post it. (I should have bookmarked it)

    Some of the EPA sites, aren't updated as quick as others.

    What is your understanding that the production reduction % is suppose to be in 2010 for R22.

    Many people still think its 65%.

    That was changed in 2007 to 75%.
    To be honest, I am sceptical about everything the EPA is involved with. Let's face it, the EPA has not been good to those of us in the trenches. If they are not changing their own rulings, they make the definitions of their intent so difficult to understand that most of us don't really know what is going on or will be going on. Talk about government beauracracy gone very wrong.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #33
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    R-22 phase out

    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    To be honest, I am sceptical about everything the EPA is involved with. Let's face it, the EPA has not been good to those of us in the trenches. If they are not changing their own rulings, they make the definitions of their intent so difficult to understand that most of us don't really know what is going on or will be going on. Talk about government beauracracy gone very wrong.
    According to this EPA web site dated March 2007, you are correct. The R-22 reduction is now 75% in 2010. Here's the link
    http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phaseout/hcfc.html

  8. #34
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    Yea.

    I was supprised to find out. That, currently. There is no law, or reg, against the import of pre charged R22 units.

    From the EPA:


    4.3.6 Pre-charged Imports
    AC equipment pre-charged with HCFCs is currently imported into the United States predominantly from
    Korea, Brazil, and China. In recent years, there has been a shift to overseas manufacturing; the number
    of imports of AC equipment into the United States is on the rise (UNEP 2003a; U.S. Census Bureau
    2007). Central AC systems from foreign manufacturers such as Samsung, LG, and Haier are entering the
    U.S. market. Additionally, some U.S. manufacturers are starting to relocate plants to Mexico and other
    countries (Honeywell 2005), while others import equipment from international manufacturers that is then
    sold under their labels (HARDI 2005).
    Effective January 1, 2010, domestic manufacturers of air-conditioning (AC) and refrigeration appliances
    will not be able to charge newly manufactured appliances with newly produced or imported HCFC-22 or
    HCFC-142b, and thus will not be introducing appliances containing these newly produced substances into
    interstate commerce. However, the regulatory provision does not lead to similar results for AC and
    refrigeration equipment that has been “pre-charged” with refrigerant before entering the United States.
    EPA is evaluating the implications of proposing a January 1, 2010 ban that would prohibit the sale or
    distribution of pre-charged units imported after that date and this analysis inherently assumes a ban on
    imported pre-charged products beginning in 2010. However, should R-22 pre-charged units continue to
    enter the United States after 2010, it would have the effect of increasing the overall servicing demand of
    R-22 charged equipment post-2010, adding further concern to the risk of potential shortfalls as projected
    in Scenarios 15 and 20 of this analysis. Initial estimates indicate that a projected average annual total of
    pre-charged R-22 imports could range from 10.7 million to 15 million units. Further details regarding the
    effects of a ban on import of appliances precharged with HCFCs is available in EPA’s e-docket
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  9. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by philkawa View Post
    According to this EPA web site dated March 2007, you are correct. The R-22 reduction is now 75% in 2010. Here's the link

    Now read the 2008 edition of the regs.
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  10. #36
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    *

    Quote Originally Posted by ampulman View Post
    502, I worked with very low temperature equipment (freeze drying) many years ago which used 502. Is there a drop-in replacement?

    yes there is, i can tell you which in the technical section!



    .

  11. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    To be honest, I am sceptical about everything the EPA is involved with. Let's face it, the EPA has not been good to those of us in the trenches. If they are not changing their own rulings, they make the definitions of their intent so difficult to understand that most of us don't really know what is going on or will be going on. Talk about government beauracracy gone very wrong.
    is there a hole in the o-zone, is the hole closing up?

    i will tell you, it has a lot to do with patents!

    it's a Dupont thing!



    .

  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Now read the 2008 edition of the regs.
    My mistake. this is the March 2008 regulation (not 2007)
    http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phaseout/hcfc.html

  13. #39
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    for many years there were no valves for pump down and no equipment for reclaim. So when you needed to tap into the units you had no other options but to dump.

    now with valves on all equipment and reclaimers for recovery laws and type of refrigerant shouldnt matter.

    there is no reason or excuse not to reclaim or pump down to tap a system

    anyone just venting is just being plain iresponsible and foolish

    with this said 410-a or 22 should be reclaimed and not intentialy vented for the well being of all

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