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  1. #14
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    Aug 2007
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    971
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Problem is: With the open records laws here in GA, the HVAC co that got fined could look up who ratted them out... and I am not sure I want the HVAC community knowing I ratted out someone for the $$$. Could be a bad thing if I ever needed a favor from someone...

    Dayum, don't that make you an accessory after the fact!?





    Expect nothing, yet expect the unexpected.
    Press on Regardless, Endeavor to Persevere.

  2. #15
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    Sep 2005
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    Atlanta GA area
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    21,180
    Good read!!!

    Seriously; I have observed that when someone 'gets away with something', they seem to be emboldened (get a fat head, think they are 'above the system', and try something bigger). Sooner or later, they make a fatal mistake and the rewards of their choices/actions come back to haunt them. Never seems to fail...

    The company that rigged the 'R-22 replenishment system' will stub their tow bad enough to be laid up...

    Meanwhile, the rest of us that only do 'the right thing' will have a good time fixing the problems.

    And now to start some controversy (and probably get the thread closed); I doubt the R-22 that was released at that place will cause the earth to cease to exist... Let the flames begin...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In a freezer or in an attic somewhere
    Posts
    550
    To the above comment, Damn......

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Weyburn Sk, Canada
    Posts
    14
    He definitely found and repaired the leak the way it should've been done in the first place. What ended up happening is the boiler inspector showed up THAT day while my buddy was running for parts, and also while he was gone the "regular" company showed up. They told the boiler inspector that it was all my buddies fault and they called his boss to try to get my friend fired when in all reality he was 100% innocent and was making it right. Wish i knew more details as to what the end result was. I couldn't believe this story when he was telling us! When i was going through school we were told up to a $1,000,000 fine or 3 years in jail.... ballsy man. Like who would even dream that up? and if he did it at this place, where else did he do it??

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    NW Florida
    Posts
    707
    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Good read!!!

    Seriously; I have observed that when someone 'gets away with something', they seem to be emboldened (get a fat head, think they are 'above the system', and try something bigger). Sooner or later, they make a fatal mistake and the rewards of their choices/actions come back to haunt them. Never seems to fail...

    The company that rigged the 'R-22 replenishment system' will stub their tow bad enough to be laid up...

    Meanwhile, the rest of us that only do 'the right thing' will have a good time fixing the problems.

    And now to start some controversy (and probably get the thread closed); I doubt the R-22 that was released at that place will cause the earth to cease to exist... Let the flames begin...
    Lets dig it a little deeper. If the chlorine in freon is the culprit that destroys the ozone then what about swimming pools. I can smell the chlorine before I see the pool.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    60
    If memory serves me correctly isn't chlorine heavier than air? I know i am heavier than air and i definitaly am knot on my way into the atmosphere.

  7. #20
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    Sep 2005
    Location
    Atlanta GA area
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    21,180
    I think most of us figured out about refrigerant and the ozone layer... but since the market place seems to support the current line, we may as well go along...
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  8. #21
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    Feb 2005
    Location
    L.I. NY
    Posts
    129
    I would not even know where to find a condensor water valve that could do that. It would have to be reverse acting to open on low to recharge the system.

    I myself feel bad about adding a few lbs a year to a system that contains about 60 lbs of 22

  9. #22
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    Sep 2007
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    94
    Quote Originally Posted by dezerttech View Post
    If memory serves me correctly isn't chlorine heavier than air? I know i am heavier than air and i definitaly am knot on my way into the atmosphere.
    Here comes allot of boring stuff.

    not too far into the whole Ozone completion thing. But you are fundamentally wrong. The chlorine atom by it's self is lighter then most of the elements in air and all of the molecules in air. It is lighter then H2O, CO2, Argon and Nitrogen, and those gases make up almost all of the Air (nitrogen makes up 80% of air).

    Hydrochloric Acid is a liquid because it has a boiling point of 110 degrees celcius. The reason whey you smell chlorine is because some of it had reactions that turn it into a gas.

    All CFC's and HCFC's and most refrigerants are lighter then air at atmospheric pressure.

    The chlorine in CFC's have a weak bond to that molecule and rather be bonded to Oxygen or another element. O3 is ozene and the third oxygen can be taken away very easily. So when a CFC makes it up there the chlorine react to the ozone turning it to O2 and Clorite. Blah blah blah

    Man made molecules are often weaker bonds then naturally made ones that is because weaker bonds are cheaper.

    The argument about ozone depletion is separate from greenhouse gases because ozone depletion has to do with how much CFC is making it to Ozone level and it ability to destroy it. Not rather the chemical reaction would actually occur.

    The argument on climate change is rather the amount of greenhouse gases we are releasing has made a difference yet on the way the Climate works.

    Forgot R-22 is actually a HCFC or actually hydrochloride that has a Hydrogen atom or about 90% of the CFC's that makes it harder for the Chloride to leave the molecule.
    Last edited by FlatTire; 08-06-2008 at 02:04 AM.

  10. #23
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    Jun 2008
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    NW Florida
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlatTire View Post
    Here comes allot of boring stuff.

    not too far into the whole Ozone completion thing. But you are fundamentally wrong. The chlorine atom by it's self is lighter then most of the elements in air and all of the molecules in air. It is lighter then H2O, CO2, Argon and Nitrogen, and those gases make up almost all of the Air (nitrogen makes up 80% of air).

    Hydrochloric Acid is a liquid because it has a boiling point of 110 degrees celcius. The reason whey you smell chlorine is because some of it had reactions that turn it into a gas.

    All CFC's and HCFC's and most refrigerants are lighter then air at atmospheric pressure.

    The chlorine in CFC's have a weak bond to that molecule and rather be bonded to Oxygen or another element. O3 is ozene and the third oxygen can be taken away very easily. So when a CFC makes it up there the chlorine react to the ozone turning it to O2 and Clorite. Blah blah blah

    Man made molecules are often weaker bonds then naturally made ones that is because weaker bonds are cheaper.

    The argument about ozone depletion is separate from greenhouse gases because ozone depletion has to do with how much CFC is making it to Ozone level and it ability to destroy it. Not rather the chemical reaction would actually occur.

    The argument on climate change is rather the amount of greenhouse gases we are releasing has made a difference yet on the way the Climate works.

    Forgot R-22 is actually a HCFC or actually hydrochloride that has a Hydrogen atom or about 90% of the CFC's that makes it harder for the Chloride to leave the molecule.
    Then answer me this. With all the controls on freon why is the hole still getting bigger. Seems that someone has made a mistake about the root cause. I was surfing the net a while back seems the problem is hydro carbons. That is what comes out of our tail pipes everyday. They claimed the burning of fossil fuels is the leading cause of global warming.

  11. #24
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    Sep 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by meoberry View Post
    Then answer me this. With all the controls on freon why is the hole still getting bigger. Seems that someone has made a mistake about the root cause. I was surfing the net a while back seems the problem is hydro carbons. That is what comes out of our tail pipes everyday. They claimed the burning of fossil fuels is the leading cause of global warming.
    I am not debating that. I was responding to a statement that was fundamentally wrong. You put CFC's and O3 in a bottle there will be no O3 left. That is my point, and that Freon is lighter then air at atmospheric pressure.

    All the details of how much freon is still getting to the Ozone and if there is enough Carbon Dioxide in the air to cause climate change, I am not up on. But i do know that it is fundamentally right like green house gases does hold allot more radiant heat then nitrogen.

    I am simply saying that the reactions do happen i am do not know enough about it to know if it is happening enough to make a significant difference.

  12. #25
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    Oct 2004
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    PDX
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    Quote Originally Posted by meoberry View Post
    Then answer me this. With all the controls on freon why is the hole still getting bigger.

    One look at China, and their lack of pollution regulations, should answer that pretty fast.


  13. #26
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    Sep 2007
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    94
    Quote Originally Posted by oloenneker View Post
    One look at China, and their lack of pollution regulations, should answer that pretty fast.

    Funny thing is that is true and misleading at the same time.

    It is misleading b/c freon is not directly causing that. And one of the ironic things is that one of the gases causing that smog is Ozone or O3.

    But at the same time if china allows there cities to look like that. They are surely not enforcing the freon laws, and the freon that doesnt react to the lower man made ozone is getting to the bigger ozone.

    Factory caused pollution similar to that was a factor in the white flight of the 50's.

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