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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Rydal,Ga
    Posts
    84

    How dose the TXV react ???

    Quote Originally Posted by S_Helton View Post
    The critical part is the proper return path from a room with a closed door. What happens if they had a wood floor, then decided a few years later to get carpet, and the 1" clearance went from 1" to 1/4" because of the pile. A pass through grille or a jumper makes sure this isn't affected. The resulting imbalance may cause return air to be pulled from a chimney/bath vent etc.

    Am I way off on this?
    Unless you are damper every room and a T-Stat at every return/room.... returns in every room is not efficient !!!

    I am pretty sure you don't put a return in baths and kitchens... how do you return that air.... (central !!!)
    These two areas generate more internal gains (btu) then any where in the home.
    So you plan on dragging that air only by the T-Stat ?????

    Last Call !! If ducts are outside the conditioned space in extreme temps your shoving supply air and return air thru..... and bringing back supper heated air temps not from inside the home..... how dose the TXV react...
    Dose it say.. open up the flood gates temps are bad ????
    Or dose it say.... load up the accumulator low DT things are great ???
    I am not clear on this one ???????

    Should we start a new thread on this one ?????

    I have worked hand & hand with most of the "Building Scientist Guys" and "Central Return & Jumper Ducts Is It"

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    33

    where

    hallways are good big space less noisy
    any big rooms are good *master livingin large homes all rooms located in front door at least 6ft from closest supply
    bathrooms no you dont want to do a #2 and your whole house smell it
    garage no gas fumes could kill you
    kitchen no its too hot if you cook lol
    in the wall you get too much heat from that but if all else fails.. u need to
    **** and try not close to windows

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    40
    What is the best free or low cost software for homeowners to calculate duct work sizing? Wish so many active professionals disagreeing I am getting a little nervous about the ocntractors in my area. Do the softwares take into account things like where you live and age of house? Will it recomend if they should be using insulated flex duct or metal?

    I am only designing a system once and I know it is dam sure more important to me that they get it right than it is for them to get it right. It just kills me when I go to a newly coinstructed houses and they are not perfectly comfortable.

    Also do the softwares take into account heating and cooling the extremes? When we have family gatherings with 30 people and it is 95deg, that is precisely when I want to be able to get it nice and cool.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Quote Originally Posted by kjander View Post
    What is the best free or low cost software for homeowners to calculate duct work sizing? Wish so many active professionals disagreeing I am getting a little nervous about the ocntractors in my area. Do the softwares take into account things like where you live and age of house? Will it recomend if they should be using insulated flex duct or metal?

    I am only designing a system once and I know it is dam sure more important to me that they get it right than it is for them to get it right. It just kills me when I go to a newly coinstructed houses and they are not perfectly comfortable.

    Also do the softwares take into account heating and cooling the extremes? When we have family gatherings with 30 people and it is 95deg, that is precisely when I want to be able to get it nice and cool.

    Call around and ask"can and will you do a Man,J,S and D?"keep dialing until you get a yes.

    You can do it yourself on this site for a fee,but if you want it perfect,get a Pro.


    30 people ,additional system for use only when they are there,otherwise oversized results will plague you.

    Maybe a two stage system with zoning ,but a second system is best.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Naples, Fl
    Posts
    889

    KennyMac typed

    I have worked hand & hand with most of the "Building Scientist Guys" and "Central Return & Jumper Ducts Is It"

    I knew it; there was just something about the way you typed. Sorry KM it's just the petty opportunist in me.

    In the interest of minimizing heatgain through the return duct work a sealed interior wall chase can be paired with the undercut door to provide an inexpensive efficient means of relieving a bedroom/den.

    In Florida our code calls for no more than a 2 PASCAL room to room pressure difference but I haven't seen it enforced; if it does watch how big these passive returns have to be.

    Dash any enforcement or even checking room to room pressures in your area by the party having jurisdiction?

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,989
    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post
    1" in a well insulated home,here in Florida,where the cfm would be around 100.

    This will vary drastically around the country,depending on the heating and cooling cfm required for the "typical" room.
    Of course Dash, you & I know it is far better in a long cooling season like FL to have the Return where the warmest air is, near the ceiling. For cooling, neither of us want the Returns at the floor level.

    In some climates it is a good idea to be enabled to switch from floor for heat, to near the ceiling for cooling.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Naples, Fl
    Posts
    889
    Quote Originally Posted by udarrell View Post
    Of course Dash, you & I know it is far better in a long cooling season like FL to have the Return where the warmest air is, near the ceiling. For cooling, neither of us want the Returns at the floor level.

    In some climates it is a good idea to be enabled to switch from floor for heat, to near the ceiling for cooling.
    We have homes with 20 plus feet ceilings but most of the residents are under seven feet tall so why would I put a return 24 feet in the air?

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Quote Originally Posted by udarrell View Post
    Of course Dash, you & I know it is far better in a long cooling season like FL to have the Return where the warmest air is, near the ceiling. For cooling, neither of us want the Returns at the floor level.

    In some climates it is a good idea to be enabled to switch from floor for heat, to near the ceiling for cooling.
    Honestly in a single story home I don't see any difference.

    15 years ago when we built our home,we installed high and low wall retuns,switched by the season,coludn't tell any difference in comfort.Just leave them both open today.

    Our addition only has ceiling returns,for ease of install,only reason.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianf View Post
    I have worked hand & hand with most of the "Building Scientist Guys" and "Central Return & Jumper Ducts Is It"

    I knew it; there was just something about the way you typed. Sorry KM it's just the petty opportunist in me.

    In the interest of minimizing heatgain through the return duct work a sealed interior wall chase can be paired with the undercut door to provide an inexpensive efficient means of relieving a bedroom/den.

    In Florida our code calls for no more than a 2 PASCAL room to room pressure difference but I haven't seen it enforced; if it does watch how big these passive returns have to be.

    Dash any enforcement or even checking room to room pressures in your area by the party having jurisdiction?
    One county out of 7,actually checks the size on plan review,that's it.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Naples, Fl
    Posts
    889
    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post
    Honestly in a single story home I don't see any difference.

    15 years ago when we built our home,we installed high and low wall retuns,switched by the season,coludn't tell any difference in comfort.Just leave them both open today.

    Our addition only has ceiling returns,for ease of install,only reason.
    ACCA Manual RS covers this subject of return locations.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    4,989

    Tried to Edit with those Qualifications - couldn't Save Edit

    Quote Originally Posted by adrianf View Post
    We have homes with 20 plus feet ceilings but most of the residents are under seven feet tall so why would I put a return 24 feet in the air?
    I tried to edit my post with those those qualifications (8' ceilings, etc.) & it locked up & did not save the edit.

    I had to unplug the PC & reboot to even get back to this forum as it would always load with the error report.

    On ceilings higher than 8' & attic above, keep the Returns lower & leave the warm air as a barrier to slow heat transfer from the attic.

    Even with 8' ceilings if attic is not well insulated against heat conduction to ceilings, don't put Returns near the ceiling

    If the SA does a good job mixing the air to avoid stratification, then putting Returns from the floor to the ceiling won't make any appreciable difference.

    However, except for the caveat above, irrespective of comments on this thread, where old gravity floor furnaces have been placed with blower furnaces with the ductwork & grilles not properly renovated, & with both Returns & Supplies at the floor level & many times low airflow, it will help heatload the evaporator if Returns are at the ceiling for cooling.
    http://www.udarrell.com/oil_furnace_heating.html

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alberta Canada
    Posts
    2,246

    What ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post
    That wouldn't be a proper return path,so it's not a comparison to ducted returns.
    What would not be proper return path, All my returns are ducted and minimum 6"

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alberta Canada
    Posts
    2,246

    ???????

    Quote Originally Posted by kenny mac View Post
    Unless you are damper every room and a T-Stat at every return/room.... returns in every room is not efficient !!!

    What!

    I am pretty sure you don't put a return in baths and kitchens... how do you return that air.



    Only because of high humidity and ordors in cooking vapours. you do not close kitchen/bathroom doors for long periods and thats is why you don't create hot or cold spots.

    These two areas generate more internal gains (btu) then any where in the home.

    Why would these areas create more gain?



    I have worked hand & hand with most of the "Building Scientist Guys" and "Central Return & Jumper Ducts Is It"
    They better get some trainning because central returns are good but in every room.

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