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  1. #14
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    Aug 2002
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    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
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    18,836
    If you have a proper retun path,for all rooms,how are ducted returns better from a comfort or efficiency stand point?

    Manual D ,the industry standard,tells us that the location,high or low,of return grilles has little effect on comfort.I know there are several here who disagree.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    53
    The critical part is the proper return path from a room with a closed door. What happens if they had a wood floor, then decided a few years later to get carpet, and the 1" clearance went from 1" to 1/4" because of the pile. A pass through grille or a jumper makes sure this isn't affected. The resulting imbalance may cause return air to be pulled from a chimney/bath vent etc.

    Am I way off on this?

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alberta Canada
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    2,246
    We all know air takes path of least resistance and I know here in Alberta it is code to have return in everyroom. Using door give you 1" x 36"=36Sq" . We usaully use 8"x14"=112 sq" even if stud space is only 6"x12" still 72" big difference and when you have it right in room you will never have a problem. As far as high and low wall grills I personally think there would be a comfort difference hot air rises cold air falls. I have a 2200 sq' 2 storey and the upstairs was not cooling very good so I installed high wall grills and is better now.

  4. #17
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    Aug 2002
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    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by S_Helton View Post
    The critical part is the proper return path from a room with a closed door. What happens if they had a wood floor, then decided a few years later to get carpet, and the 1" clearance went from 1" to 1/4" because of the pile. A pass through grille or a jumper makes sure this isn't affected. The resulting imbalance may cause return air to be pulled from a chimney/bath vent etc.

    Am I way off on this?
    Change is a valid reason why ducted is better,hadn't thought of that.

    Other than a change like that,do you have another reason?

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alberta Canada
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    2,246
    No a valid reason is making it right. If you came in to my house and said we will use under the door for return air. I will show you the door. This is not trailer park ventilation. So dash you are saying that 36SQ" is as good as 72SQ" or 112Sq".
    Last edited by 21degrees; 08-02-2008 at 12:54 PM.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post
    Change is a valid reason why ducted is better,hadn't thought of that.

    Other than a change like that,do you have another reason?
    None that I can think of. As you said, as long as there is a proper path for the air, it doesn't matter. At least for me.

    As far as high vs low returns, if the throw on your supplies is sufficient, it shouldn't matter. But generally in my area, you see high returns on the 2nd floor, because the equipment and/or ductwork is in the attic. On the first floor the duct is in the crawlspace, which means a low return.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by 21degrees View Post
    No a valid reason is making it right. If you came in to my house and said we will use under the door for return air. I will show you the door. This is not trailer park ventilation. So dash you are saying that 36SQ" is as good as 72SQ" or 112Sq".
    I think the assumption was if a 1" space under the door is enough, do you need more? I don't think that more is always better, unless you are talking about the velocity of the air. A larger return from a room would make a difference in noise, and possibly comfort, if it is passing across you.
    Last edited by S_Helton; 08-02-2008 at 12:59 PM. Reason: mis-spelling

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alberta Canada
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    2,246
    I just think their are too many variables and should have 1 return in everyroom. How hard is it too do the job right. Isn't that why they call us professional. I can promiss you this that if you took a 15'x15' room and used bottom of door as return and someone came in and put 8"x14" return duct it will work better a faster for cooling because of stacking affect.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    53
    Cost for many consumers would be the deciding factor. Cost is almost always a factor. Even when you educate the consumer, they still look at the bottom line. In my area, metal duct has become rare. It's definitely better for airflow as well as longevity, but cost is what has reduced the use of it. Now, we see box and flex systems. Same thing I think goes for returns in every room. Cost can be the deciding factor.

    After saying all of that, I agree, returns in every room is better

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21degrees View Post
    I just think their are too many variables and should have 1 return in everyroom. How hard is it too do the job right. Isn't that why they call us professional. I can promiss you this that if you took a 15'x15' room and used bottom of door as return and someone came in and put 8"x14" return duct it will work better a faster for cooling because of stacking affect.
    That wouldn't be a proper return path,so it's not a comparison to ducted returns.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    South,Tx
    Posts
    331

    The dilema of R/A

    After saying all of that, I agree, returns in every room is better
    As much we had tried to explain to customers this is the way to go , they still look at $ ,so just add in the Bid and give them the element of choice: 1 big looking ugly filter grill in the middle of the hallway or simple 10X10 or 12X12 filters grills in each individual room.
    The idea is to get them to understand what R/A is . If i got a 3 ton unit pushing out 1247 CFM supply , them should i not have the equivalent of Return air coming back to make that unit be quiet ,and work at its efficient capacity !
    Every time i win that argument with the customer, and then they understand the paradox of airflow.
    Matt 7:12 The Golden Rule
    "Do for others what you would like them to do for you. This summary of all is taught in the law and the prophets.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    40
    hmm.... you guys are talking about gaps under doors being important.

    I guess I probably under valued the 10 inch transoms above the doors. They prolly help a lot then. If there are functioning transoms does that make return location less important?

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjander View Post
    hmm.... you guys are talking about gaps under doors being important.

    I guess I probably under valued the 10 inch transoms above the doors. They prolly help a lot then. If there I have functioning transoms does that make return location less important?
    IF the leak enough,or are left open,you don't need a return in the rooms that have them.


    There are two issues being posted about,location of return(s),and one in each room or a return path,two separate things.

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