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  1. #66
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Naples, Fl
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    889
    Quote Originally Posted by the dangling wrangler View Post
    We both know that this thread isn't even getting warm. And you're right, no need to get angry over things said over the INTERNET.
    Exactly because one or two of the posters are sipping on their single malts, typing a sentence or two and havin a cheap evenings entertainment.

  2. #67
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    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianf View Post
    And just how does he know that there might be something wrong? This site, you and your constintuients. So now why lambaste the man?
    I agree that too many professionals on this site are just gleefully happy to give HOs ammo to complain about the HVAC professionals that they are dealing with.

    One problem is that some HVAC professionals are a little too gung ho on thinking they can fix the problems of others. This is not surprising since fixing problems is what we train for and practice on a daily basis. The real problems occur when technical information is given to someone who does not understand our trade, especially when that technical information is based on information provided by someone who does not understand our trade.

    Since about 90% of the non-pro HOs who post on this site have little, if any, respect for what we as professionals know and do, we as professionals only shoot our industry in the foot by feeding those HOs information that they will use to further complain about their HVAC experience.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  3. #68
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
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    18,836
    Well like I said he could have issues and the ones I noted are common.

    If that's tearing down his or other contractors,so be it.Pretending all contractors are good,is just silly.

  4. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
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    11,873
    Quote Originally Posted by adrianf View Post
    And just how does he know that there might be something wrong? This site, you and your constintuients. So now why lambaste the man?
    That's just it. Is there in fact anything wrong with the original install? I have to say NO. Why no pictures? I'd say, about ninety- eight percent of the replies have
    thought there's no problem. But again, none of us can see what's going on from where we're sitting.

  5. #70
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    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post
    Well like I said he could have issues and the ones I noted are common.

    If that's tearing down his or other contractors,so be it.Pretending all contractors are good,is just silly.
    No one is pretending anything dash. We are just not jumping on the contractor bashing bandwagon. There are plenty of consumer sites where people can complain about us, and they do. Why would you want to advocate that here?

    Again, neither you nor I nor anyone else really knows what a non-professional consumers real issues over his/her 15 year old system is, but still you decided to smack down on the contractor. Do you really feel that you are the only decent contractor in the world? Do you really have such a low opinion of all other contractors?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  6. #71
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    No one is pretending anything dash. We are just not jumping on the contractor bashing bandwagon. There are plenty of consumer sites where people can complain about us, and they do. Why would you want to advocate that here?

    Again, neither you nor I nor anyone else really knows what a non-professional consumers real issues over his/her 15 year old system is, but still you decided to smack down on the contractor. Do you really feel that you are the only decent contractor in the world? Do you really have such a low opinion of all other contractors?
    How far away from the truth can you get??


    There are many great contractors out there,certainly not all.

    To refuse to recognize that any consumers have issues,brought on by the poor contractors,is just sticking your head in the sand,and only serves to drive consumers away from this site,which I guess is your goal.

    I only allowed that this consumer could have ,not did have, legitiment issues,where you get the crap you are posting is beyond me.Smack down the contractor,are you kidding me???


    Why other long term members can't or are afraid to see or comment on your actions ,just gives you more juice to continue and elevate your mistreatment of others.

    I have seen many consumers come to this site ,and ultimately find a solution from a real Pro in there backyard with a little help from those on this site that care,the majority,not one that steadfastly defends the action of incompentent contractors.In the past you did the same,but not today.Saying we can't tell from here is often the case,but not always.

    I've had emails,phone calls ,etc., from many that have resolved long standing issues,relating to the original design/install,by the incompetent that you advocate blindly defending,and encourage others to do the same.Only to drive normal consumers from this site,IMHO.

    Wake up and smell the roses the net is here to stay and so are the consumers,contractors ,and techs,they will all be here when we are gone.


    If the original poster is still following this i hope s/he posts the pics or results of work to remediate the issues.If s/he is out of line so be it,doesn't change the absolute fact that many in the trade are not worth their salt,or that many are ,if you are doing a good job in the trade,why be concerned that consumers will find out that others aren't.

    Why some here are encouraged to try and make consumers feel small,and be ridiculed is beyond me,what do those who do this get out of it?Does it make you feel special,and powerful??

    If you make your living doing it right,aspire to,or selling to those that do,why worry about protecting those that don't,won't or can't? Now if your where on the dark side ,I could see your concern,and the concern of others,hoping that's not the case.

  7. #72
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Suppy NC
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    4,513
    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post
    How far away from the truth can you get??


    There are many great contractors out there,certainly not all.

    To refuse to recognize that any consumers have issues,brought on by the poor contractors,is just sticking your head in the sand,and only serves to drive consumers away from this site,which I guess is your goal.

    I only allowed that this consumer could have ,not did have, legitiment issues,where you get the crap you are posting is beyond me.Smack down the contractor,are you kidding me???


    Why other long term members can't or are afraid to see or comment on your actions ,just gives you more juice to continue and elevate your mistreatment of others.

    I have seen many consumers come to this site ,and ultimately find a solution from a real Pro in there backyard with a little help from those on this site that care,the majority,not one that steadfastly defends the action of incompentent contractors.In the past you did the same,but not today.Saying we can't tell from here is often the case,but not always.

    I've had emails,phone calls ,etc., from many that have resolved long standing issues,relating to the original design/install,by the incompetent that you advocate blindly defending,and encourage others to do the same.Only to drive normal consumers from this site,IMHO.

    Wake up and smell the roses the net is here to stay and so are the consumers,contractors ,and techs,they will all be here when we are gone.


    If the original poster is still following this i hope s/he posts the pics or results of work to remediate the issues.If s/he is out of line so be it,doesn't change the absolute fact that many in the trade are not worth their salt,or that many are ,if you are doing a good job in the trade,why be concerned that consumers will find out that others aren't.

    Why some here are encouraged to try and make consumers feel small,and be ridiculed is beyond me,what do those who do this get out of it?Does it make you feel special,and powerful??

    If you make your living doing it right,aspire to,or selling to those that do,why worry about protecting those that don't,won't or can't? Now if your where on the dark side ,I could see your concern,and the concern of others,hoping that's not the case.

    I have to agree with most of what you say
    In this case we have not been given anything to make a diccision with. Fifteen or more years agor the was not all this fancy programs or wasnt as common as today.

    tings were done by hand on paper and a lot of contractors would do an intire load then just count outlets instead of room by room load calc

    now that the system is in need of replacing it is time to address the mistakes of the past. This doesnt mean the original contractor was a hack just means rule of thumb has caught up to us.

    in this case and others when time comes to replace you need to tell the contractor all the concerns you are having with the system and have him address them

    may require more ducts or larger ducts
    may require in some case smaller ducts.

    flex may need replacing or ducts wit internal liner may also need replacing

    rule of thumb from years gone by has been replaced by programs and facts so the mistakes of yesteryear should not be repeded

  8. #73
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Annapolis, MD: ragboat capitol of the world
    Posts
    358
    Tin, I think you do not realize how far back the science and "correct ways of today" go.

    Anyone who was installing by "rule of thumb" 15 years ago was and probably still is a hack. I learned Manuals J & D over 30 years ago and the info and technique was already OLD.

    On this particular job we still have no idea from the info we have been given who the responsible party is, so its all moot.
    Sam

    Know-it-all? Nope, not even half!

  9. #74
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Suppy NC
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    4,513
    boat racer
    yes i do realize how far back things go
    20 years ago all the installs i did were from blueprints. Every room and duct was on the print and it was followed to the letter.

    If changes had to be made the layout guy would have to approve the changes. I also was doing load calcs back in the 70,s and do so today.

    I was going by what i have seen over the years. I was not ssying it was right just that it was done and was quite common back then.

    either way times have changed and when looking at an older system for replacement it is important to address all concerns with the system

    you are right alot of contractors still count outlets and dont realy know how to size duct work. This is a big problem today and will be for a while yet

    MY point is to go into a house and rip apart a contractor for mistakes made isnt the correct way to do things
    go in address all concerns and then reccomend proper changes to the system in order to give better comfort

  10. #75
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    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by boat racer View Post
    Tin, I think you do not realize how far back the science and "correct ways of today" go.

    Anyone who was installing by "rule of thumb" 15 years ago was and probably still is a hack. I learned Manuals J & D over 30 years ago and the info and technique was already OLD.

    On this particular job we still have no idea from the info we have been given who the responsible party is, so its all moot.
    Exactly. There is not enough viable information to be making any claims that anything wrong was done by the contractor. After all, this system has made it 15 years and is still operating. Only vague accusations based on misunderstandings by the poster from things he/she has read from pros on this site are the reasons for this poster to continue thinking he/she has been wronged.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  11. #76
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    68,944
    Do we even have a specific complaint on this system?

    Hell, I've had PITA HOs give me all kinds of grief over the years over things they just did not understand. From one b!tch!ng at me for having to pay me for just standing around to one telling me she isn't going to pay for my looking at her outdoor unit when it is the indoor unit that is having the problem.

    The one I was "just standing around" on was while I was watching the gauges and temperature changes while troubleshooting a heat pump that recently had a compressor change. When I tried to explain to this guy that I needed to compare the temperature and pressure changes, he told me that I was taking way to much time to get a reading and that I was just running up his bill.

    The woman with the problem with the indoor unit was a matter of she was convinced that she needed a new blower motor because the air had stopped blowing. It was a completely frozen coil that was caused by a leak in the accumulater.....the one that is in the outdoor unit. She was momentarily happy when I told her there was nothing wrong with her blower motor. That happiness went away quickly when I told her what it was going to cost to replace the accumulator.

    My point is that we are only getting vague information based on this HOs perception of his/her system using information that he/she most likely does not understand right from professionals on this sight. In essence; we may have created the monster.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #77
    My parents went through pretty much the same thing except they bought a new home that was already finished that had an HVAC system which had been scrimped upon. After suffering with it for entirely too long in my opinion they finally called out the person who installed the original and he said "now would you like me to put in what should have been in the first place?" They couldn't be happier. And the savings on their energy bills have repaid them a few times.

  13. #78
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    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
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    11,873
    I like to deal with facts. There really isn't anything factual in this whole thread, other than the system is fifteen years old. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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