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  1. #92
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    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    68,932
    Quote Originally Posted by tecman View Post
    Speaking of tinkering, I think I may have the only Goodman heatpump with demand defrost in the country. Shortly after the install in an addition in my house, I scavenged and old York defrost control and relay, along with a few spare temp sensors and refitted the Goodman. No more cold weather unneeded defrosts. Works like a champ.

    paul
    Preferences of defrost boards come and go as we find out how well or not so well new designs work in real conditions. Funny you should mention York because the worst defrost control change out I've ever had to do was one of the first York's with demand defrost. The "new and improved" controls to replace the original board and relays was a time/temperature control that litereally required that York unit to be completely rewired.

    Amana had the same style of Demand defrost control you put on that Goodman. The Amana board, which was also used in other brands with the same problematic results, was replaced with a time/temperature system.

    Rheem/Rudd were other brands with demand defrost control problems. I can't count high enough to be able to say how many of those demand defrost controls I changed out as a contractor and worked with other contractors to change out when I was repping for Rheem/Ruud.

    If demand defrost controls are now more stable, that's great. I will still be gun shy of them for some more time to come

    Plus; the benefits of demand defrost in no way outweigh the problems the HVAC industry has had with them.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  2. #93
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    53
    The biggest reason is that in my area, the distributors that sold the equipment, would sell it to anyone. They were the low end contractors looking for the cheapest unit, since they sold jobs on price, not quality.

    Saying that, the last company I worked for was a Trane dealer, that used Goodman as a second line. We sold Goodman mainly for rental/apartments. The company was a quality HVAC company, and trained their employees to do it right. As the service supervisor, I saw no more failures with the Goodman than I did with Trane.

    I believe that if the equipment is sized and installed properly, you will have fewer problems.

  3. #94
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    NE PA
    Posts
    698
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Funny you should mention York because the worst defrost control change out I've ever had to do was one of the first York's with demand defrost. The "new and improved" controls to replace the original board and relays was a time/temperature control that literally required that York unit to be completely rewired.

    Amana had the same style of Demand defrost control you put on that Goodman. The Amana board, which was also used in other brands with the same problematic results, was replaced with a time/temperature system.
    I used to do a lot of work for a guy who was a York dealer. Thus the spare parts. This model was what I believe they called YorkMate III. I worked on quite a few of them and actually found them to be quite reliable. No so for York's thermistors. A call involving the controller was 99% of the time a bad sensor. I grew spoiled with the analyzer that you plugged in as you could easily read temps. Actually Honeywell made the controller for York. I think I only replaced one controller in about 20 years. I have done far more time/temp boards over that time.

    I had the Goodman in for 1 winter and got pissed when it would defrost with little or no coil frost, but just the right temp conditions. It was burning a lot of KWs some nights with defrosts every 90 minutes. I checked, board, defrost stat all OKay. The next fall I squeezed an old controller I had (actually I have several on the shelf), put in the sensors and it works like a champ. Only defrosts when it needs to. From me it works much better than the Goodman time/temp.

    paul

  4. #95
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    53
    Demand defrost is always better than a time/temp defrost. No question.

  5. #96
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    With all the threads bashing Goodman,and now this one asking why the bad rap,at some point you have to believe they earned ,at least in part,deserved or not,their reputation.

    If not ,maybe someone (thinking I know who) can explain how this came about.

  6. #97
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    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by S_Helton View Post
    Demand defrost is always better than a time/temp defrost. No question.
    Well, I used to have the job you have with the company you are with and I can tell you that if you had to deal with dozens of demand defrost issues every week you would not be so quick to say they are "always" better

    Let's just say that if demand defrost controls actually work without the consistent failures they have had in the recent past they are always better. The design concept is certainly more efficient, but like anything else; when they don't work, they are crap.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #98
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    53
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Well, I used to have the job you have with the company you are with and I can tell you that if you had to deal with dozens of demand defrost issues every week you would not be so quick to say they are "always" better

    Let's just say that if demand defrost controls actually work without the consistent failures they have had in the recent past they are always better. The design concept is certainly more efficient, but like anything else; when they don't work, they are crap.
    Hehe....too true

  8. #99
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    68,932
    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post
    With all the threads bashing Goodman,and now this one asking why the bad rap,at some point you have to believe they earned ,at least in part,deserved or not,their reputation.

    If not ,maybe someone (thinking I know who) can explain how this came about.
    Nothing like tossing more gas on the fire, eh dash?

    Hell, you have championed Carrier for the use of Bristol compressors in one thread and then condemned the use of the same Bristol compressors used in another brand on another thread.

    I'm just glad that there aren't as many ignorant, single minded pros who are willing to be so obnoxious discussing the many problems that Carrier has had over the years.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  9. #100
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
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    18,836
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Nothing like tossing more gas on the fire, eh dash?

    Hell, you have championed Carrier for the use of Bristol compressors in one thread and then condemned the use of the same Bristol compressors used in another brand on another thread.

    I'm just glad that there aren't as many ignorant, single minded pros who are willing to be so obnoxious discussing the many problems that Carrier has had over the years.
    No gas,or not intended,for the most part I stay out of the Goodman threads,not that I always did.I just wonder how there is so much,I think some most have been earned,it's not like there's any organization behind this,promoting it.

    I believe you misinterpurted my Bristol comments,or I wasn't clear in what I stated.You'd have to find that one.

    Not sure who you calling ignorant,so I'll pass on commenting.

  10. #101
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
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    14,914
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Plus; the benefits of demand defrost in no way outweigh the problems the HVAC industry has had with them.
    One manufacturer has had fewer problems with its demand defrost system over the last 20ish years than is typical for the time/temp systems most use.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  11. #102
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,040
    Don't know who makes the board for that brand but they sure do a good job. Rheem & ICP used Ranco for demand defrost, the DDL wasn't the most reliable thing. ICP went back to timed, Rheem stayed with it. Overall I think they got the bugs out of it. The new Ranco boards with diagnostics and lockouts had a few bugs but failures are pretty rare.

    Then there's the board Lennox & Allied used. On Air Ease, they only have a low pressure switch, the HP terminals are jumped. Yet we keep going out to find units locked out on high pressure. Finally learned from the factory that the board was programmed wrong. The indicator LEDs reported the opposite of what happened

    Ought to hear a neighborhood full of cheap builder heat pumps on a cold night. Those timed boards go in & out constantly. Can get pretty noisy especially with a scroll screaming.

  12. #103
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Urbandale IA. USA
    Posts
    4,913
    I have always felt Goodman gets a bad rap because:
    1. the wrong people are improperly sizing equipment AND installing using too small of ductwork.
    2. Goodman does NOT advertize while the others do and the price difference is why the OTHERS CANNOT COMPETE!
    3. Somebody will always pick on the:
    best/ lowest priced/ compeditor

    It is just human nature to put down your competition when you cannot match their pricing...
    Those who dance, appear insane to those who do not hear the music.
    Those who believe, appear ignorant to those who do not know God.

  13. #104
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    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post

    Not sure who you calling ignorant,so I'll pass on commenting.
    I got a chuckle out of your being ready to take offense over being called ignorant but are ok with the obnoxious part...

    By ignorant, I am referring strickly to the absence of knowledge. For example, when "ignorant" poster makes a statement that Goodman only has great warranties because Goodman does not honor them. That would be someone who simply has no knowledge of what he/she is talking about.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


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