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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,741
    Keep in mind. That it is not Goodman that has done this.
    It is your contractor, and the distributor that has done this.
    Good chance, the distributor, is a private distributorship, and not a Goodman owned distributorship.

    Did you actually speak to the distributor, or did your contractor just tell you they said it was the right one.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    623
    Quote Originally Posted by CJS View Post
    The only equal replacement of a 3 ton coil with 36k btu cooling capacity is another 3 ton coil with 36k btu cooling capacity. SEER equivalence and matchup to condenser have nothing to do with the manufacturer's binding obligation to exchange the defective 3 ton coil.

    The warranty doesn't say "we will replace a defective unit with a SEER-equivalent unit," and it doesn't say "we will replace a defective unit with a unit that's minimally adequate to operate with whatever condenser the owner has." Instead, it says the manufacturer will exchange a defective unit, period. No court will accept that the obligation has been fulfilled with a coil that has no more than 2/3 the cooling capacity of the original.

    I guess this is more of a contract issue than an HVAC technical issue. Thanks to all for your input.

    What we are trying to tell you though is that the 13 seer coils are physically larger, and in most cases a lower capacity 13 seer coil is a closer and correct match for a 10 seer application than the 3 ton 13 seer would be. Lets face it you are not planning to change the equip. out anyway so it is kind of a mute point. But with your current system you are still getting your full 30,000 btu @10 seer even though the coil is rated lower, that btu rating of the coil is @ 13 seer which you do not have. YOU HAVE NOT LOST CAPACITY! By the way, remember you have a 2.5 ton condenser, it is a 30,000 btu system.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    6,316
    First coils do not produce BTU's they are nominally rated for tonnage strictly as a means of identification. Coils also do not have SEER ratings condensing unit have SEER ratings and those ratings are affected by the coil choice. A 3-ton condensing unit may have a nominally rated coil of 2-tons or 5-tons and could be a matched system; it depends on what you are trying to accomplish with the match.

    The coil you had before was no more or less compatible than the new coils is. You need to get over it and accept what you have, a qualified expert in court would destroy any chance you have of winning.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    8
    Beenthere, I first contacted the installer and let him know that when I accepted his proposal to "warranty the 3 ton coil," I expected a 3 ton coil in its place. His office said the 2 ton coil is the correct replacement, and call the distributor if I wanted to hear it from them. So I called the distributor and they said the same thing.

    You are absolutely right, it is Goodman Manufacturing that promised to exchange the defective coil, and they have no idea any of this has taken place. I suspect they will agree that to "warranty a 3 ton coil" means to provide a new 3 ton coil.

    As for the respondent who said I'm not planning to upgrade the condenser, I don't know why you assumed that (maybe I misunderstood you). I have three written estimates from three different contractors to replace the 2.5 ton 10 SEER with 3 ton units, two of which are 13 SEER and one estimate for a 14 SEER. Now that I'm stuck with a 2 ton coil, which I never agreed to receive, those condenser options are not possible.

    Are there any HVAC technicians on here who would be satisfied if this situation happened to them in their own home? Can any of you tell me that you wouldn't fight to have a 3 ton coil warrantied with nothing less than another 3 ton coil?

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Linn Creek, Mo
    Posts
    399
    Quote Originally Posted by CJS View Post
    Beenthere, I first contacted the installer and let him know that when I accepted his proposal to "warranty the 3 ton coil," I expected a 3 ton coil in its place. His office said the 2 ton coil is the correct replacement, and call the distributor if I wanted to hear it from them. So I called the distributor and they said the same thing.

    You are absolutely right, it is Goodman Manufacturing that promised to exchange the defective coil, and they have no idea any of this has taken place. I suspect they will agree that to "warranty a 3 ton coil" means to provide a new 3 ton coil.

    As for the respondent who said I'm not planning to upgrade the condenser, I don't know why you assumed that (maybe I misunderstood you). I have three written estimates from three different contractors to replace the 2.5 ton 10 SEER with 3 ton units, two of which are 13 SEER and one estimate for a 14 SEER. Now that I'm stuck with a 2 ton coil, which I never agreed to receive, those condenser options are not possible.

    Are there any HVAC technicians on here who would be satisfied if this situation happened to them in their own home? Can any of you tell me that you wouldn't fight to have a 3 ton coil warrantied with nothing less than another 3 ton coil?
    I think I am starting to see what you are trying to do here. You are trying to get a free upgrade to a 13 seer coil so you don't have to buy one when you upgrade to a 3 ton. You would have had to buy one any way if the coil didn't go bad.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    623
    Quote Originally Posted by jid1877 View Post
    I think I am starting to see what you are trying to do here. You are trying to get a free upgrade to a 13 seer coil so you don't have to buy one when you upgrade to a 3 ton. You would have had to buy one any way if the coil didn't go bad.
    Now it is all coming together, couldnt figure out why they couldnt get past the fact that the coil was matched to current system. A somethin for nothin sorta deal, should have seen that one coming.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    96
    3 bidders for a warranty coilWhen will we start charging for estimates??

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Central Maryland
    Posts
    246
    Quote Originally Posted by aintitfun View Post
    Now it is all coming together, couldnt figure out why they couldnt get past the fact that the coil was matched to current system. A somethin for nothin sorta deal, should have seen that one coming.
    How is asking for like replacement on a defective coil, under a warranty that he paid for (either via purchase or add-on warranty), considered asking "somethin for nothin"?

    Getting less than what you had is a plague on the consumer nowadays. In the electronics world a lot of people are finding that when they replace a 31 day or longer old item on a 3 year warranty, they get a refurb back, and that refurb has NO warranty.

    Fighting back is good and fair.

    -HF

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Central Maryland
    Posts
    246
    Quote Originally Posted by jjer View Post
    3 bidders for a warranty coilWhen will we start charging for estimates??
    Learn to read.

    3 bids on replacing the 2.5 ton UNIT. That's not the warranty coil.

    -HF

  10. #23
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Houston Texas
    Posts
    6,316
    Quote Originally Posted by CJS View Post
    Beenthere, I first contacted the installer and let him know that when I accepted his proposal to "warranty the 3 ton coil," I expected a 3 ton coil in its place. His office said the 2 ton coil is the correct replacement, and call the distributor if I wanted to hear it from them. So I called the distributor and they said the same thing.

    You are absolutely right, it is Goodman Manufacturing that promised to exchange the defective coil, and they have no idea any of this has taken place. I suspect they will agree that to "warranty a 3 ton coil" means to provide a new 3 ton coil.

    As for the respondent who said I'm not planning to upgrade the condenser, I don't know why you assumed that (maybe I misunderstood you). I have three written estimates from three different contractors to replace the 2.5 ton 10 SEER with 3 ton units, two of which are 13 SEER and one estimate for a 14 SEER. Now that I'm stuck with a 2 ton coil, which I never agreed to receive, those condenser options are not possible.

    Are there any HVAC technicians on here who would be satisfied if this situation happened to them in their own home? Can any of you tell me that you wouldn't fight to have a 3 ton coil warrantied with nothing less than another 3 ton coil?
    We will make this real simple for you to understand so please pay attention and read this.

    Regardless of what coil you received as a warranty replacement it would have needed to be replaced with a properly matched coil to the condensing unit you choose. even if you stayed with an R-22 system the coil would need to be replaced in order for you to have a matched system and get the comfort and efficiency expected from a new system.

    Regardless of your choice 13 SEER or 14 SEER the coil would need to be matched to reach those ratings and capacities. You say you are going up to a 3-ton from a 2.5-ton have you had a proper Load Calculation performed to determine if that is a wise choice.

    Are the contractors that have given you bids mentioned the need to upgrade the coil to match the new 13 SEER or 14 SEER condenser. If they have not then you need to consider a higher quality better trained contractor. If you don't care if the coils are ARI matched then it all this complaining about an inequitable replacement is just so hot air and not a real concern. Sorry if you don't care if your new equipment is properly sized, matched and installed why should we as professionals care about your complaint.

    We have all told you that you in fact did receive a comparable coil for what was previously installed in your home. You appear to want something that would be compatible with new equipment which your old coil would not have been.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by CJS View Post
    Before the 3 bidders on the 3-ton coil replacement knew it was going to be warrantied, they all proposed new 3 ton coils to go with the 2.5 ton condenser.
    How did 3 people bid and not know coil was in warranty? Was it over phone or something. Also when they quoted coil with condenser that is completely different then just a coil. I can understand him wanting a new 3 ton coil to avoid having to buy in the future. The installers responsibility is to put in whatever is the best matchup. That is hard to do with a old condenser. By the way, I can read and what I read is that there is no "professional" under your name. There is no need for insults here.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    623
    Quote Originally Posted by hangfirew8 View Post
    How is asking for like replacement on a defective coil, under a warranty that he paid for (either via purchase or add-on warranty), considered asking "somethin for nothin"?

    Getting less than what you had is a plague on the consumer nowadays. In the electronics world a lot of people are finding that when they replace a 31 day or longer old item on a 3 year warranty, they get a refurb back, and that refurb has NO warranty.

    Fighting back is good and fair.

    -HF
    Because all this is over the fact that he is not happy that the coil matches his current system, and wants goodman to supply him with something that will supposedly match new equipment, which it wont , unless they go with goodman/amana condenser, and then here we go again, a lot of time and effort just to end up with a mis-matched system again. I have also read here that their warranty on the coil may only stand when installed with a matched system, dont know if that is true or not, but he may have already come out of this with more than the warranty allowed for. I have no problem with people getting warranty parts, when it is clearly covered by warranty, But again none of this would even be discussed if he were not trying to weasel this coil in with a new install.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    8
    I am not disputing that the replacement coil needs to be compatible with my current condenser. Both the 2 ton coil they installed and the 3 ton coil that I think I should have received would work with the 2.5 ton condenser.

    The main dispute is this: some of you think that the manufacturer has satisfied their obligation if they provide the least powerful model that will operate in the system. My claim is that they have to replace it with a coil with the same specification, and coils are measured in tons, so it needs to be 3 ton for 3 ton.

    Imagine if you bought a Chevy Corvette and it was defective and warrantied. Chevy sends you an Impala. And they say, "here's your replacement Chevy, it also drives around so it's equal. And by the way, the Impala has better mileage so your operating cost will actually be lower than with the Corvette so we've done you a favor."

    That's the same as the SEER argument. Yes it's possible that an 1824 coil might provide similar cooling capacity per kWh of electricity used as the old 3 ton coil did before it broke. But it will never generate 36k Btu of cooling capacity per hour, just like the Impala will never go 150 mph and help you pick up chicks!

    "But the speed limit on your street is 35 mph," some of you say, "so Chevy shouldn't give you a replacement Corvette. It's not the right match for you."

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