13 SEER, or higher

[gonefishin]

Why would some recommend a higher SEER rating? I live in NE Ohio and we are looking at putting in a Goodman electric furnace with an add on heat pump at 13 SEER. (3.5) ton.

A number of people have suggested that we should go with the 16 or 18 SEER. I understand that the SEER deals with the cooling side. Is it worth the extra cost from 13-16 or 18 when we only have 2.5 months of time when we would really use AC?

[obxtech]

Heat pumps also have heating efficiency ratings, indicated as an HSPF (Heating Seasonal Performance Factor).

In general, the higher the HSPF rating, the less electricity the unit will use to heat your home.

So depending on your cost vs your payback it may very well be worth going to higher seer rating ask for the figures from your contractor so you can see the savings you would be getting.

[gary_g]

Why would some recommend a higher SEER rating? I live in NE Ohio and we are looking at putting in a Goodman electric furnace with an add on heat pump at 13 SEER. (3.5) ton.

A number of people have suggested that we should go with the 16 or 18 SEER. I understand that the SEER deals with the cooling side. Is it worth the extra cost from 13-16 or 18 when we only have 2.5 months of time when we would really use AC?

In a 3-ton size, the 14 SEER GSH Goodman heat pump has a much higher HSPF and btu output than the 13 SEER, especially at the 17F rating (almost 5000 btu more). The 14 (in R-22) also gives you a Copeland scroll compressor which is industry preferred.

I would go with the 14 SEER for the above reasons. I would not go higher than 14 SEER.

Check and compare the numbers for yourself: www.GoodmanMFG.com. Go to "products", then "heat pumps", choose the heat pump, then go to "product specs".

I would also get the optional TXV for the indoor coil.

I have the 3-ton GSH14036 heat pump. Changing the 1" filter is a real PIA. Get a separate 4" media filter.

Take care.

[RoBoTeq]

The Goodman GSH13042-1 3.5 ton heat pump does have the Copeland scroll compressor, not that their is anything wrong with recipricating compressors.

For additional features and the best value for the money for an area like Ohio, I do agree that the Goodman 14 Seer GSH14042-1 would be a good choice.

A definite feature I would want for more comfort and year round efficiency is a variable speed indoor blower unit such as the AEPF model air handler or the MBE model blower with matching coil. This would raise the efficiency of that 14 SEER to 15 SEER for the matched system.

[hangfirew8]

A number of people have suggested that we should go with the 16 or 18 SEER. I understand that the SEER deals with the cooling side. Is it worth the extra cost from 13-16 or 18 when we only have 2.5 months of time when we would really use AC?

Good question. I've heard that attaining true, consistant 18 SEER or higher performance assumes you live in an area where it has constant low humidity and usual peak temps in the low 80's. If I lived in such a paradise, I would install permanent screen windows and throw the circuit breaker on the A/C to "off".

As with most technology investments, there is a point of diminishing returns, where you can buy more efficiency, but it just isn't worth it. Get quotes on 14, 15 and 16 SEER systems, and like the other posters said, pay close attention to the HPSF ratings. Then you can decide how much to pay for efficiency.

-HF

[RoBoTeq]

Good question. I've heard that attaining true, consistant 18 SEER or higher performance assumes you live in an area where it has constant low humidity and usual peak temps in the low 80's. If I lived in such a paradise, I would install permanent screen windows and throw the circuit breaker on the A/C to "off".

You have been told wrongly.

There is a point where the energy savings is just not going to justify the additional cost for efficiency, but it has nothing to do with optimal conditions. Actually, the more brutal the conditions are, the more effective higher efficiency systems can be set up to be.

[gonefishin]

For additional features and the best value for the money for an area like Ohio, I do agree that the Goodman 14 Seer GSH14042-1 would be a good choice.

thank you I am looking into that now.

[gonefishin]

[QUOTE=gary_g;1938756]In a 3-ton size, the 14 SEER GSH Goodman heat pump has a much higher HSPF and btu output than the 13 SEER, especially at the 17F rating (almost 5000 btu more). The 14 (in R-22) also gives you a Copeland scroll compressor which is industry preferred.

I would go with the 14 SEER for the above reasons. I would not go higher than 14 SEER.

Check and compare the numbers for yourself: www.GoodmanMFG.com. Go to "products", then "heat pumps", choose the heat pump, then go to "product specs".

Thank you, I never thought putting in a new HVAC system would use this much research. You help is invaluable. I am looking into this unit now.

[knott]

where im at theres only a 40 dollar savings between 13 and 14 seer units in the cooling mode. i say have someone due the calculations in your area about how much you can save over a yr. just make sure they have the righ5t numbers for your area

[gonefishin]

[QUOTE=knott;1940581]where im at theres only a 40 dollar savings between 13 and 14 seer units in the cooling mode. i say have someone due the calculations in your area about how much you can save over a yr.



I am currently getting prices on 14, 15 an 16 SEER by the contractor. AS it looks now the 16 SEER may be too expensive to get any return back especially compared to the HSPF at 9.5 but we will see when the other quotes come in.

[hangfirew8]

You have been told wrongly.

Note to self- don't believe everything you read on hvac-talk.

-HF

[beenthere]

[QUOTE=gonefishin;1940632]

where im at theres only a 40 dollar savings between 13 and 14 seer units in the cooling mode. i say have someone due the calculations in your area about how much you can save over a yr.

I am currently getting prices on 14, 15 an 16 SEER by the contractor. AS it looks now the 16 SEER may be too expensive to get any return back especially compared to the HSPF at 9.5 but we will see when the other quotes come in.

What kind of a car do you drive.

Do you drive one that gets the best gas milage, but bites for comfort.
Or one that provides copmfort while your driving.

[gonefishin]

[QUOTE=beenthere;1940997]

[B]
What kind of a car do you drive.

Do you drive one that gets the best gas milage, but bites for comfort.
Or one that provides copmfort while your driving.

Ok.... are you saying the same thing applies with Heat pumps? A higher SEER/HSPF rating is great for efficiency but is worse on comfort?

[beenthere]

No.

A 2 stage unit provides little payback. But does increase comfort greatly.
If you look only at performance numbers, you may inadvertantly pass up on comfort.

With 2 stage units, many peple find they can set their stat 2 or more degrees higher in the summer, and feel cooler then they did with their single stage. This often saves more money then the operating cost calculators show.

I haven't had a customer yet that had buyers remorse because they got a 2 stage system. I've had more then one, wonder if they shouldn't have gotten the 2 stage instead of the single stage they got.
Usually after they hear from or visit a friend that has a 2 stage.

[gonefishin]

[QUOTE=beenthere;1941217]No.

A 2 stage unit provides little payback. But does increase comfort greatly.
If you look only at performance numbers, you may inadvertantly pass up on comfort.


I understand. I will for sure get a 2 stage unit. I just find is almost crazy that the recommendations and advice varies greatly. Some have said never a 13 SEER, Some 18 SEER only, Some never over 14 SEER, I am not by any means any kind of expert in this area which is why I am looking for the advice. Just trying to find the right fit for my situation.

[beenthere]

I have talked customers out of 18 SEER systems. No real pay back in my area. And no improvement in comfort either.
I do recommend 2 stage for many customers.

I sell 2 stage on improved comfort ability, not on great savings.

When ever you get a recommendation from someone. To get a what ever stage unit, what ever SEER unit.
If they are recommending single stage, ask them if they have installed both single and 2 stage units. And what compliments, or complaints their customers had about the 2 stage systems, that they are recommending single stage.

If they don't sell them, install them, or service them. Then they really don't have any feed back from customers that have properly sized and installed 2 stage systems.
So they can't tell you about performance based on actual installed performance.
They can only tell what they read or heard.

If you have any friends, that have a properly sized and installed 2 stage system. Ask them if they think they should have gotten a single stage.

Your house, your comfort, your money.

Ask, and we'll answer if we can.

[VA GENT]

I have talked customers out of 18 SEER systems. No real pay back in my area. And no improvement in comfort either.
I do recommend 2 stage for many customers.

I sell 2 stage on improved comfort ability, not on great savings.

When ever you get a recommendation from someone. To get a what ever stage unit, what ever SEER unit.
If they are recommending single stage, ask them if they have installed both single and 2 stage units. And what compliments, or complaints their customers had about the 2 stage systems, that they are recommending single stage.

If they don't sell them, install them, or service them. Then they really don't have any feed back from customers that have properly sized and installed 2 stage systems.
So they can't tell you about performance based on actual installed performance.
They can only tell what they read or heard.

If you have any friends, that have a properly sized and installed 2 stage system. Ask them if they think they should have gotten a single stage.

Your house, your comfort, your money.

Ask, and we'll answer if we can.

beenthere: Very practical and comprehensive answer, as usual....question, is a variable speed air handler required to have a 2 stage compressor? (I've got a feeling that this could be a stupid question but I am asking anyway)

[beenthere]

In "my opinion", you shouldn't install a 2 stage without a VS blower.

I have done it. <hangs head low>
And they don't remove the humidity as well, and it never seemed to save any money in operating cost.
As far as I can tell, what electric was saved by the compressor being in first stage for long periods of time, was pretty much used up by the PSC blower motor using more electric having to run longer.

I don't believe you can remove as much humidity with a standard blower in a standard 2 stage application.

[gary_g]

I understand. I will for sure get a 2 stage unit. I just find is almost crazy that the recommendations and advice varies greatly. Some have said never a 13 SEER, Some 18 SEER only, Some never over 14 SEER, I am not by any means any kind of expert in this area which is why I am looking for the advice. Just trying to find the right fit for my situation.

Just make sure whichever SEER system you get, you want a 12 EER, 9 HSPF, and full heating btu's at the 47F rating temp.

Remember that you are getting a heat pump. Different animal than straight a/c.

Good luck.