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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    So. Cal.
    Posts
    58

    looking of going into controls

    I need someadvice for stepping into controls, recently i was involved in a auto accient and i would like some advice in what i should take in a local community college like programming to learn these systems. now its very hard to do heavy service. my injuries include 2 burst fractures in my back and they had to remove 4 ft of intestines. ya bad accident to a very young service tech (23 yo) that was a very valueable asset to the company he worked for, and still does.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pacific Time Zone
    Posts
    4,217
    Sorry to hear about your accident. First thing I would recommend is to see if whomever you guys rep, if you rep anyone, is offering any classes. If they are take those classes. That will get you right to what your company is doing. The next step is I would read what is commonly referred to as the Honeywell gray manual, aka Honeywell Building Controls or something like that. Trane also has some good manuals and be receptive to different ways of thinking. Do a search on this website and you'll find a link to the gray manual I am referring to. Read all you can about control theory and application. Hopefully you've had enough experience to decipher out some of the BS on theory vs. application, ie controlling a supply air temp setpoint to 55 deg f like it is a chilled water valve when it is simply on/off dx cooling. Some classes on basic networking would also be helpful as we are dealing with the IT/IS departments all the time.
    I haven't learned "code" that is really running behind the scenes as most of my programming language is graphic based, but I did do some PPCL/line programming awhile back. I know I could do more if I knew the code, but for 99% of the applications what I have available for graphical programming works for what I need. The other day I decided I wanted to make my own "astronomical" clock and on the web I found the "code" to do it; however I did not know how to put that code into the code that was running behind the scenes of my graphical programming language. Anyway I ended up writing my own program with the graphical language and in testing it works. I might be a few days off after a few years, but it is going to be really close and besides for what I need if the parking lot lights come on a few minutes early or late it is not going to be a problem.
    BTW - I like GMC's.
    Last edited by crab master; 07-21-2008 at 02:02 AM. Reason: Last Comment
    "How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
    BIG Government = More Dependents
    "Any 'standard' would be great if it didn't get bastardised by corporate self interest." MatrixTransform
    http://threedevilskennel.com/ - not my website.
    Versatile Hunting Dog Federation - www.vhdf.org/


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    151
    One of this sites members had a link in his signature to a place he kept useful manuals on controls

    the link is http://www.esnips.com/user/osiyo53 and has a number of manuals that would be useful to read if you can keep your eyes open long enough.

    The fundamentals of HVAC is a better place to start than to learn programming. I have met a number of skilled programmers that because they didn't understand the basics weren't as good as they should/could have been.

    If you can get hold of other peoples code, read it, and (this is the important part) once you understand the code they have written , use it in your own programming. If I ever come across some clever code I always try to take a copy to save into my macro's folder. Once you learn one type of controls programming, I'd pretty much say to learn another is pretty quick and painless.

    Good luck with everything
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Don't be a stupid dwarf. It's not big and it's not clever!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pacific Time Zone
    Posts
    4,217
    Good points Picnic - he did say he had service experience but he didn't say how much. Also the user he is referring to is Osiyo - excellent material in the link he put in. I am glad that's available and you remembered it. Also there is supposed to be a better education forum coming in Sept or sooner on this site.
    "How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
    BIG Government = More Dependents
    "Any 'standard' would be great if it didn't get bastardised by corporate self interest." MatrixTransform
    http://threedevilskennel.com/ - not my website.
    Versatile Hunting Dog Federation - www.vhdf.org/


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    So. Cal.
    Posts
    58
    well sorry for the delay well i got 5 years in on the firld and a aa degree in electronics engineering technonogies, the company i work for likes T.A.C Vista i got a info cd and have been studying that but its hard i really need field experence

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pacific Time Zone
    Posts
    4,217
    Well picnic and I both work on the TAC Vista series. Picnic may work on a few others as well.
    "How it can be considered "Open" is beyond me. Calling it "voyeur-ed" would be more accurate." pka LeroyMac, SkyIsBlue, fka Freddy-B, Mongo, IndyBlue
    BIG Government = More Dependents
    "Any 'standard' would be great if it didn't get bastardised by corporate self interest." MatrixTransform
    http://threedevilskennel.com/ - not my website.
    Versatile Hunting Dog Federation - www.vhdf.org/


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    151
    When you find out how it all works could you let me know

    Got to say TAC Vista is my least favourite compared with Delta and Siemens (Desigo) but this is mostly due to lack of training. (also its LON but I don't want to start another flame war, lol )
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Don't be a stupid dwarf. It's not big and it's not clever!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    250
    I started out 20 years ago doing Industrial controls and progrmming, I went thru the Electrical apprenticeship to go along with the education I had from college, I found that writing programming was simliar to writing code for computers. HTML was just starting to be used in the industry higher end customers for interface(not like today).

    The best beneift that I had was that I work with 4 older gentelmen that had been in the controls side for about 30 to 35 years each, I pick there brains alot and with my background in computers and IT, along with the wirring side made it easy to understand and do the work.

    One of the reason that I am where I am at is that I showed the willingness to stride to make myself understand and keep up to speed with the new technology, but keep in mind that I still needed to work on older system also.

    I have training and experience in the follwoing control system: Allen Bradley, GE, Siemens, IDEC, Modbus interfaces and programming, along with now doing CSI(INET7) and TAC products.

    I also have a background in network communications, I.E. network cabling, network routers and more.

    I would recommend that you start with a small company to get your feet wet and try to attend traing class that the company may be able to get you into, the more personal touch with a comapny that you have the more they will take care of you as an employees, also try your local communinty colleges to see if they offer classes in the controls field. The JR. college around my area have several classes that deal with the construction trade, and a few of them are HVAC controls classes.

    Like CrabMaster and Picnik I work with TAC products, buit I still can work on other system, sometimes this is needed to integrate different system into LON or TAC products.

    If your company is a TAC partner, then they can get you into the TAC training class to get you start with the understanding of the system, that makes a great start for beginning a new career.

    I know what how it's is after and accident happens, and I have see a share to much of it, just keep your head up high and continue on the path that your are doing and you will make it.

    Lontshooter

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Shreveport, Louisiana
    Posts
    2,337
    Quote Originally Posted by fordtrucksrule View Post
    I need someadvice for stepping into controls, recently i was involved in a auto accient and i would like some advice in what i should take in a local community college like programming to learn these systems. now its very hard to do heavy service. my injuries include 2 burst fractures in my back and they had to remove 4 ft of intestines. ya bad accident to a very young service tech (23 yo) that was a very valueable asset to the company he worked for, and still does.

    Look into buying stock in hair restoration company.

    Computer classes especially networking.
    UA Local 141

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by berg2666 View Post
    Look into buying stock in hair restoration company.

    Computer classes especially networking.
    Dont forget kneepads..Berg

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Philadelphia
    Posts
    2
    These guys are right, it is more important to learn the fundamentals of what you are controlling. Then it is much easier to understand the programming. One you learn to program one product, others become easier.
    Find some mentors, a good place to go is your local vendors, they should have contacts that can help you when you get stuck. They can also guide you as to what products do and do not work.
    If you are going to school, I would recommend drawing courses (Cad and/or Visio) and project management. You will need how to get things done. Also estimating is very important as this will help you in laying out work and with advancement. Also study electrical circuits, theroy and schematics, you will use this all of the time.
    The control company should take care of the training on the product. If you can handle the above, rest assured that you will have a sucessful career in the industry.

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