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  1. #1
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    Did we win or lose Vietnam War?

    The question is: Did the United States win or did the United States lose the Vietnam war?

    Interesting question since we are involved in two other similar conflicts. A friend asked this question and I could not believe the different answers.

    Any comments?
    A sandwich is not a sandwich without the BREAD.

  2. #2
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    Its a stupid question...


    Nobody wins a war.
    I fully support the military and the War on Terrorism.


    If you don't know, then don't do. If you don't know and still do, then be prepared to pay someone else a lot to undo what you did and then do it right.

    If you do know, then do. But do it right. Otherwise, you may not be doing it long.

  3. #3
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    Depends on who you ask. Personally I dont see how anybody can say we won in Vietnam when the regime we was fighting (Ho chi minh and the communist) is now in charge and the regime we wanted to keep was defeated. Iraq is different. Hussein is gone and a new regime has been installed. Japan and Germany were defeated and there were regime changes as well as new constitutions written. The US withdrew from Nam, the Cong filled the vaccum and now they govern. Maybe defeated isnt the right word, I think the US just gave up on it. So I guess the lesson that McCain wants us to all to see is that the same thing will happen in Iraq if we withdraw. The US has been much more successful in Iraq than it was in Nam. These days Vietnam is a semicapitalist country, so I guess it would make a good debate on just why the hell we was doing over there anyway.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by raider94 View Post
    Depends on who you ask. Personally I dont see how anybody can say we won in Vietnam when the regime we was fighting (Ho chi minh and the communist) is now in charge and the regime we wanted to keep was defeated. Iraq is different. Hussein is gone and a new regime has been installed. Japan and Germany were defeated and there were regime changes as well as new constitutions written. The US withdrew from Nam, the Cong filled the vaccum and now they govern. Maybe defeated isnt the right word, I think the US just gave up on it. So I guess the lesson that McCain wants us to all to see is that the same thing will happen in Iraq if we withdraw. The US has been much more successful in Iraq than it was in Nam. These days Vietnam is a semicapitalist country, so I guess it would make a good debate on just why the hell we was doing over there anyway.
    Well put.


    As for the Iraq war, we are ahead of the ballgame. We have completed many missions and have taken control. We are slowly but surely giving the power back to the people with a democracy type government. And we are helping to train the Iraqi solders and policeman.

    We haven't won the war yet. We have a long long way to go before that happens. And them 2 pieces of S$IT (Obama and Clinton) can't see it. They will kill more US servicemembers doing their mass pull out than leaving them there.



    My opinion of the Iraq war is a little different than anyones elses. I have my theorys and conclusions. My ideas and observations come from first hand experience, not freaking CNN. Don't listen to them tards, they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
    I fully support the military and the War on Terrorism.


    If you don't know, then don't do. If you don't know and still do, then be prepared to pay someone else a lot to undo what you did and then do it right.

    If you do know, then do. But do it right. Otherwise, you may not be doing it long.

  5. #5
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    Well, technically it was a tie.

    In South Vietnam, fighting continued until the fall of 1972. The North finally realized that the war was a stalemate. Representatives from both sides (Le Duc Tho and Kissinger) met and worked out a cease-fire. In January, 1973, the Paris Accords went into effect. The treaty required the US to withdraw its troops from Vietnam in 60 days and the North agreed to return all prisoners of war (POWs). Free elections were to be held and troops of North Vietnam could remain in the South until the elections. Of course, the North did not plan to abide by the Accords. The South Vietnamese government under Nguyen Van Thieu faced a massive enemy force within its borders. For two years the two sides continued fighting until April 1975, when the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) collapsed and the North Vietnamese occupied Saigon. The communist North then "reunited" the country and Saigon was renamed Ho Chi Minh City.

    IMO, the only reason it was a stalemate was due to spineless idiot politicians, and the demoralization caused by the anti-war movement.

    Politicians lost the war.

    Iraq and Afghanistan are most definitely not "similar conflicts" to Vietnam, though some of the media and congress have attempted to portray them as such, there is little to no similarity.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post

    Politicians lost the war.

    As usual...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    IMO, the only reason it was a stalemate was due to spineless idiot politicians, and the demoralization caused by the anti-war movement.

    Politicians lost the war.
    Basically what I was going to say. Militarily, we won it, but politically, we blew it.
    Not as lean, not as mean, but I'm still a hardcore, ass-kicking, hard charging Marine! Oohrah!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by iraqveteran View Post
    Its a stupid question...


    Nobody wins a war.
    Very true, but in political terms; we lost the conflict in Vietnam.

    We did not have to lose that conflict. If our politicians and liberal media would have just allowed us to do what was needed to come out on top in that conflict, we could have done so.

    Just like in the Middle East and Asia today; we cannot win because no one "wins", but our military should be allowed to do what it takes to not lose. Vietnam; we lost.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
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  9. #9
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    The last "winable" was was WWII. In that kind of war a certain enemy in a certain and definable place was present. And the enemy attempted to take over a certain people within a certain definable area. In that case we could mount up, go over "there" and fight those types of people in their geographical boundry areas.

    Wars like that don't exist anymore and probably never will. A main reason for that is the world is small now compared to then. Most anyone with $1,000 or less can be anywhere in the world in 24 hours or less now. Plus a weapon that will fit into a suit case now is as destructive as one bombing mission of WWII.

    So people and places are no longer identified as areas of war. All types of people are all over the planet now as are all types of belief systems. You neighbor could be the biggest enemy now. Before he or she had to be in a "foreign" country away from our borders. No more.

    So we are now at war, and always have been, with belief systems. And belief systems are now everywhere. By causing conflits (war) overseas now we are basically chasing down the main source of these belief systems in their own home towns therefore keeping the belief system structure too busy to spread it's poision in other places, such as the USA.

    At any time anywhere these belief system will flourish once again if we take away the pressure. This is equally true for the muslim belief system of killing anyone who doesn't belong to their belief club as well as the white supremist group in Idaho and other places. Anyone remember Timothy McVay anymore?

    As I see it, forever more we will be need to stand guard in foreign lands as well as our own back yards for this type of enemy. If, on a daily basis, we and others are not being killed on our own streets, then we are wining the "war".

    As for Vietnam, we won in the fact that we left there. But that is the second conflict, Korea being the first, in which we started to learn that the definition of war has changed. Vietnam was not "winnable" in the true definition as we could not go after the threats that were feeding that war. If we were allowed to chase down the suppliers of that war machine then most of Asia and parts of Europe would have been involved.

    Most still have not learned yet that this killing belief system presence on this earth is what we are at war with. Not a certain place that has certain boundries or certain types of people that speak a certain type of language or look a certain way.
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  10. #10
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    We lost Vietnam.

    Our soldiers never stood a chance fighting 2 fronts.
    The front in nam where they were killed or mamed, and then back home were anti war movement groups would attemp to demoralize them.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Very true, but in political terms; we lost the conflict in Vietnam.

    We did not have to lose that conflict. If our politicians and liberal media would have just allowed us to do what was needed to come out on top in that conflict, we could have done so.

    Just like in the Middle East and Asia today; we cannot win because no one "wins", but our military should be allowed to do what it takes to not lose. Vietnam; we lost.
    Please edit your post. Where it says "we" "us" ect, change to "them" "others" "kid next door" ect

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    Well, technically it was a tie.

    In South Vietnam, fighting continued until the fall of 1972. The North finally realized that the war was a stalemate. Representatives from both sides (Le Duc Tho and Kissinger) met and worked out a cease-fire. In January, 1973, the Paris Accords went into effect. The treaty required the US to withdraw its troops from Vietnam in 60 days and the North agreed to return all prisoners of war (POWs). Free elections were to be held and troops of North Vietnam could remain in the South until the elections. Of course, the North did not plan to abide by the Accords. The South Vietnamese government under Nguyen Van Thieu faced a massive enemy force within its borders. For two years the two sides continued fighting until April 1975, when the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) collapsed and the North Vietnamese occupied Saigon. The communist North then "reunited" the country and Saigon was renamed Ho Chi Minh City.

    IMO, the only reason it was a stalemate was due to spineless idiot politicians, and the demoralization caused by the anti-war movement.

    Politicians lost the war.

    Iraq and Afghanistan are most definitely not "similar conflicts" to Vietnam, though some of the media and congress have attempted to portray them as such, there is little to no similarity.
    Elequently phrased Mark, and very gracious, but I must disagree that it was a tie. We straight up lost. We cut and run and the Communist we were fighting took over the country while continuing to hold our servicemen captive. We lost, and we didn't have to lose.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Elequently phrased Mark, and very gracious, but I must disagree that it was a tie. We straight up lost. We cut and run and the Communist we were fighting took over the country while continuing to hold our servicemen captive. We lost, and we didn't have to lose.
    Our military whipped their butts. Our politicians performed fellatio on them.
    No reserve. No retreat. No regrets.

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