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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    6

    Tridium R2 dirty groups

    I have a JACE 403ext shows dirtygroups when I check the linkmanager under the services. What does this mean and how can I correct this? I have all honeywell w7751h vav controllers in this particular JACE403ext

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    167
    It usually means that there is an address table error. Try rebinding the links in the dirty group and it should probably clear it up.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    86
    Address table error? Good to know, I saw that a lot with my previous employer and no one could give me an answer. Rebinding cleared them most of the time if not recommission then rebind. That always did it for me.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    336
    Thanks for that info guys. I previously thought that a Dirty Group was something like Girls Aloud or the Pussycat Dolls
    gnomethang
    _______________________________________________
    "Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them."
    - The Reverend Mother Gaius Helen Mohiam

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    6
    Thanks for the information, I did do a rebind not only on the dirty group but on the entire jace and the new links stayed "new" and the dirty groups stayed "dirty"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    167
    Do you possibly have a device that is not communicating which is included in the group of bindings?

    Have you run a verify reports under the lon utilities manager?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    462
    I am not sure what you mean by "dirty group", but i would assume that they are oranged out? I have found that the only way to get them "undirty" is to delete the points and then rediscover/add.
    He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask any questions is a fool forever.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    167
    An orange color represents a fault status which might be relevant to a point under a device. That is not what he is referring to.

    Under the lon link manager view it lists all of the nv bindings between the various devices including any bindings to the local lon device. I am by no means an expert on this, but the general gist with lon bindings is that a device has a table with I think a maximum of 16 entries. When you make a one to many binding such as outdoor air temperature from one device to every other ahu device, then this only counts as one table entry in the source device.

    This is sort of a group binding and I believe for it to be successful it must be able to update the table in all of the affected devices. If one of the devices is not communicating (config offline, down, lost message during binding, etc) then the group binding attempt cannot be completed. I believe that the dirty group is indicating that the binding was not completed.

    I also think that all of the bindings are set in the table at once, so if you have individual bindings (one controller to another controller) then they will show as new in the link manager if they haven't actually been written to the table in the device. Assuming a mixture of group bindings and individual bindings, then if the group fails (indicated by dirty group) then the individual will also fail (indicated as new even after a pass at binding).

    You should try running the verify report under the lon utilities manager and see what it indicates. This may indicate that you need to recommission one or more devices on the lon network. After recommission try to bind again.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    462
    sweet, thats good to know.
    He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask any questions is a fool forever.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    6

    Thumbs up

    Thanks for the reply. I will try this next week when I head back to the site.
    I do have 4 controllers that are not responding and I realiae that they will cause a dirty group indication, but there are plenty devices that are talking but show dirty groups. I will try to recommission all devices-I originally had an older JACE-NP and replaced it with a JACE 403 since the NP's are not made anymore This may be the problem, I have replaced other NP's on this site with 403 and had no problems but anything is possible. I will let you know next week.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    24

    dirty group

    A "group" is created when one variable is linked to several other different variables. for example, oat linked to 10 controllers. if one of those links is broken (you delete the oat binding to one of the controllers) it causes the group to become "dirty." a "dirty group" does not affect the other bindings nor does it cause any control issues, it is just ugly to look at in your link list. to correct recommission the devices and do a bind.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    6

    Talking This house is clean

    I finally got the dirty groups cleaned. I recently replace a failed JACE NP with a 403 and after this I had a lot of dirty groups. The fix was to do a replace on all the devices and then upload all the links and then finally do a commission of all devices. I did have to do a delete the local lon device and install another shadow object. (Make sure if you do this you copy the nueron id, it makes it a lot easier then doing a find because it may not find it as it didn't for me)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    638
    Decommission shadow objects before you cut them out.

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