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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Dallas (Plano), TX
    Posts
    168
    Quote Originally Posted by superd77 View Post
    ... the zone control can't slow the blower. Heres why. When the VS air handler gets a "G" call it ramps according to time...if you lose "G" call the fan ramps down to the "OFF" position.

    Carrier infinity and Bryant Evolution are the only units i've seen that don't have a bypass. ...
    Are you sure about zone controlling not directly adjusting the blower speed?

    For example, my zoning panel (WaterFurnace IntelliZone) directly adjusts the blower speed and directly adjusts the compressor stage, as a function of a few parameters, including number of zones calling for cooling/heat. Not nearly as elegently as an Infinity controller, for example, though.

    And I think that any zoned system with a variable speed blower is going to have difficulty with a bypass without the damper motors having some special control (like EWC does). My WF IntelliZone zoned system too does not have a bypass.

    (I've learned proper duct sizing is even more critical with a zoned system that has a variable speed blower. The smallest zone must still be able to handle the lowest possible blower's CFM.)

    Best regards,

    Bill

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Dallas (Plano), TX
    Posts
    168
    Quote Originally Posted by texasmax View Post
    All-

    We've got a single unit dampered for dual zones. That is the supply side is dampered, the return side pulls from the whole house regardless. Is this correct, or should the return side be switched as well? ...

    I believe this is correct. My home has 3 zones for a single unit. Damper motors are on supply ducts. No damper control on return ducts. Returns are in all rooms except bathrooms and closets.

    At night, we turn the unoccupied side way up so as to not waste any AC, but when the bedroom side cycles on, it's like a jet engine. ... so we're pushing a full house worth of air through less than half of it.

    It sounds like your blower control, as a function of number of zones calling for heat/cool, isn't working, doesn't exist, or your duct sizes to your bedrooms are not sized for the min. blower CFM your unit can run at.

    ... should the system know it's only supplying to half of the house, and adjust accordingly?

    Yes, depending upon sophistication of your zoning control panel.

    3,000 sqft, 5ton Trane XL19i (so it's a dual compressor, variable speed fan).

    You probably don't have a bypass duct since it's a variable speed fan.
    Hope the above comments help.

    Best regards,

    Bill

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    78
    Bill--so your zone panel control the air speed based on the number of zones calling for air? Please tell me more..

    the zone panel i have is ewc...

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    66,833
    What model number EWC panel do you have.

    EWC has panels that will limit what stage your A/C runs in, by the number of zones calling.

    But keep in mind. That a Trane 16i, limits what any zone panel can do with its blower speed.
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  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    66,833
    What model number EWC panel do you have.

    EWC has panels that will limit what stage your A/C runs in, by the number of zones calling.

    But keep in mind. That a Trane 16i, limits what any zone panel can do with its blower speed.
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  6. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Dallas (Plano), TX
    Posts
    168
    Quote Originally Posted by njhusky View Post
    Bill--so your zone panel control the air speed based on the number of zones calling for air? Please tell me more..

    the zone panel i have is ewc...
    Yes,

    my zoning panel (IntelliZone, manufactured by WaterFurnace, connected to my WF heat pump with two-stage compressor and variable-speed blower) controls both air volume and compressor staging, as a function of number of zones calling for air, and as a function of which zone is calling for air.

    But,

    - my zoning panel's capability is not nearly as sophisticated as what's offered by others, like Infinity for example (i.e., no damper/speed modulation as a function of SP, no temp monitoring for safety cutout, and only 2 discreet speed adjustments available for each compressor stage).

    - and it has a proprietary connection to the heat pump such that the panel isn't (generally) compatible with non-WF heat pumps (it uses PWM to control the blower speed).

    And, like beenthere comments above ("But keep in mind ... a Trane 16i ... limits what any zone panel can do with its blower speed."), in the case of my WF heat pump, there is no access to varying the speed, at all, as a function of anything (i.e., dehumidification or zoning calls) without solely using the IntelliZone panel.

    Your Trane 16i may be similar - there are plenty of experts here who can tell you if your 16i has any external port to manage blower speed via a non-proprietary connection (i.e. your EWC zoning controller).

    Best regards,

    Bill

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    658
    [QUOTE=a0128958;1930867]Are you sure about zone controlling not directly adjusting the blower speed?

    The Trane VS speed units can't be controlled by zone board. Beenthere is right about Y1,Y2,O being energized to start the timed ramp.


    And I think that any zoned system with a variable speed blower is going to have difficulty with a bypass without the damper motors having some special control (like EWC does). My WF IntelliZone zoned system too does not have a bypass.

    I've installed and statred up both EWC and honeywell zone boards. Every time we used a bypass. The bypass lets the extra air recirculate through the system. At the same time relieving the pressure from the full speed blower. this also shortens the run time of the unit cause of the pre-conditioned air going through the bypass. BTW never had a problem on VS zone systems.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    43
    Wow, lots of great info here- thank you. Service tech will be out this week, sealing up a leaky triangle- will ask about the discharge air sensor and a wiring check. As far as duct sizing, the house originally had 2 3-ton individual zones; we replaced all the equipment in and out, basically retrofitting to the existing ductwork, with a few runs replaced and added, but I'm certain there was no manual J, S, D, or otherwise at the time.

    Model numbers on my system:

    "Trane Integrated Comfort System with Confortlink"
    TUD100R9V5K4- indoor- gas furnace- XL80- staged, 52/79 btu
    AC indoor unit- TXH063P3HPBF
    control board American Standard 21D150561G01
    TX4063P3HPBF, 2TTZ9060A1000AB -some other model numbers I jotted down a while back, copied them from the original install receipts, sorry I can't tell you what they are without a few hours digging through paperwork
    Zoning Assembly ZSASSMAL010 21D941604G01
    DIP switch settings:
    DS5- On On Off Off Off On
    DSW- On On Off Off Off On Off Off On On On Off
    DS3- On Off Off
    DS4- On Off Off
    daughterboard in Zone 1/5 position DSW On On On
    daughterboard in Zone 2/6 position DSW Off Off On

    As I understand it the dominant of the two thermostats is on the slightly smaller bedroom side (the night-active side).

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