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  1. #14
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    Keep price references out of the open resi forum.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    .
    Why couldn't you just use a 410 compressor on 22 ?
    R410A compressor pumps less gas by weight per ton then an R22 compressor. In the same tonnage system.
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  3. #16
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    Bmathews - I'm from NJ - Yo! How do you Think I did it? <g>

    R-22 doesn't care what oil it has under it. For example; 22 runs fine in 404 compressors. And R-22 runs lower pressures than R-410 so the compressor would be perhaps less stressed than usual.

    What is it about my speculation which astonishes you?

    PHM
    ------------


    Quote Originally Posted by bmathews View Post
    I'm hoping you're joking. Otherwise how did you become a professional member?
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  4. #17
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    beenthere - so

    Does that mean that they wouldn't pump the R-22? Or that they would have a different performance curve when pumping 22?

    How about by volume?

    BTW: I mention these things academically; because so long as there is a market - R-22 compressors will be available. Look how long has 12 been gone and the 12 compressors are readily available, in-stock, right on the shelf.



    QUOTE=beenthere;1929312]R410A compressor pumps less gas by weight per ton then an R22 compressor. In the same tonnage system.[/QUOTE]
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  5. #18
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    PHM:

    I think you have, or do some refrigeration also.

    So you've seen more then one condenser come marked, suitable for R12, R22, R502.
    And if you checked. The capacity of the unit varied by not only the temp application, but by the refrigerant you used.

    So I think you would have to increase the R410A compressor by 10 to 15&#37; to get the same BTU capacity.
    The coils of the R22 system would be designed for X pounds per minute. And the new compressor would have to move that many pounds to get the same BTU capacity.


    Do you think it would be safe, to use a compressor for R22 that has a IR that exceeds 500 PSI
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  6. #19
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    I think it would be safe enough; sure

    How long have compressors had internal relief valves? I work on lots of them that still have none.

    Speaking of compressors and refrigerants; I don't know if you are old enough to remember, but when R-502 first came out there were no R-502 compressors. What was used was an R-12 compressor. Which was always a lot of fun on a dead-flat system. <g>

    And my thought most recently was: how much different is 410/22 versus 12/502 ?

    So anyway; the 410 compressor would handle the lower pressures of 22 OK . . . . so long as the HP / pounds pumped per hour lined up pretty well. I've never looked at the numbers and doubt I will ever have to. But to answer the hypothetical question of what will we do if R-22 compressors are NLA - I thought to mention the possibility of using 410 compressors.

    PHM
    ----------



    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    PHM:

    I think you have, or do some refrigeration also.

    So you've seen more then one condenser come marked, suitable for R12, R22, R502.

    And if you checked. The capacity of the unit varied by not only the temp application, but by the refrigerant you used.

    So I think you would have to increase the R410A compressor by 10 to 15% to get the same BTU capacity.
    The coils of the R22 system would be designed for X pounds per minute. And the new compressor would have to move that many pounds to get the same BTU capacity.


    Do you think it would be safe, to use a compressor for R22 that has a IR that exceeds 500 PSI
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  7. #20
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    R12 to R502, the critical pressures are witin 10&#37; of each other.

    I vaguely remember hearing about no 502 compressors.
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  8. #21
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    beenthere - let me just answer your question directly:

    Beenthere quote- "How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?"

    Easy -

    Until they give up and buy a new system.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    Beenthere quote- "How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?"

    Easy -

    Until they give up and buy a new system.
    I thought it was as many times as it takes, till they address the problem and not the symptom.
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  10. #23
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    But that's only true for me and you -

    I was talking about almost everyone else. <g>

    PHM
    ----------




    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    I thought it was as many times as it takes, till they address the problem and not the symptom.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  11. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    R-22 doesn't care what oil it has under it. For example; 22 runs fine in 404 compressors. And R-22 runs lower pressures than R-410 so the compressor would be perhaps less stressed than usual.

    What is it about my speculation which astonishes you?

    PHM
    ------------
    If 22 works fine in a 404 system, then that is good to know. However, I don't think that we are supposed to be mixing oils. Mineral oils and POE oils don't mix if I am not mistaken. Are the ones that are changing to 410A systems not changing linesets or flushing the old linesets out with R11 or some other method?
    As far as the compressors go, I have heard that the 410A systems draw less amperage. This seems odd to me because they run at higher head pressure, which directly affects amp draw. Now, if they do actually draw a lower amperage (perhaps due to the lower weight of the charge as has been refered to), then the compressors probably wouldn't last long pushing all of that 22. Quite frankly, I am suprised to hear you guys even discussing this when you won't hear of working on a mismatched unit that works perfectly fine.
    Lets please get off of the engineering and try to clear up some questions that we all need to know for the upcoming 2010 conversion. I am asking these questions with good intentions because I have not worked on any 410 A units and probably won't until I install one on a side job. Thanks

  12. #25
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    You can just blow out the line set.
    I prefer to install new.

    If you treat R410A, the way you are suppose to treat R22, your covered.

    Don't believe everything you hear about lower amps.

    A 13 SEER r22, and a 13 SEER R410A, providing the same BTUs, will draw the same amperage at the same voltage.(ok maybe a couple tenths difference)
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  13. #26
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    nchvac -

    Sorry about that. Didn't mean to hijack your thread.

    The answer to your question is: forget about the concern.

    R-22 compressors will be made for decades to come. So long as there is a market - the compressors will be there.

    PHM
    --------
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

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