Help me select the right system for my house.

[malutki]

I need to get a new heating and cooling system for my house. My house is 1901 sq. ft. (1st and 2nd floors) plus 650 sq. ft. unfinished basement which I plan to finish in a near future. I am trying to decide between systems from Amana and Trane. I have estimates from 2 companies. Both of them have been in business for more than 10 years and they both seem to do good quality work. The Amana system is from the installer that was Amana dealer of the year for a few years in last 5 years. The Trane is from the installer working for Home Depot.

Here are the systems I am looking at:

System A:
- Amana AMV90905DX 96% 90000 BTU Furnace (2 stage, variable speed)
- Amana ASZ16048 4 ton, 16 seer, 2 stage Heat Pump
- Aprilaire Model 5000 Whole-House Air Cleaner
- Aprilaire Model 600A Whole-House Humidifier
- Honeywell PRO8000 t-stat

System B:
- Trane XC95 95%, 80000 BTU Furnace (3 stage, variable speed)
- Trane XL16i 3 ton, 16 seer, 2 stage Heat Pump
- Trane Clean Effects TFD175 Whole-House Air Cleaner
- Trane THUMD300APB00A Whole-House Humidifier
- Trane Vision Pro TCONT900AC4 t-stat

System C:
- Trane XC95 95%, 80,000 BTU Furnace (3 stage, variable speed)
- Trane XL19i 3 ton, 19.5 seer, 2 compressor Heat Pump
- Trane Clean Effects TFD175 Whole-House Air Cleaner
- Trane THUMD300APB00A Whole-House Humidifier
- Trane Vision Pro TCONT900AC4 t-stat

Which system would you get?
Is 3 ton, 80000 BTU enough for my house?
Is 4 ton, 90000 BTU to much for my house?

The System B is about 20% more expensive than the System A, and the System C is some 30% more expensive than the System A.

Thank you,
Marcin

[BaldLoonie]

New construction? How well are you building it? Just seeing a HUMIDIFIER on the list says not well. Humidifiers are needed on leaky homes where lots of infiltration in the winter lowers RH%. In a new home if decently built, you sure shouldn't need it. If anything, you should need one of Teddy Bear's dehumidifiers.

And that goes along with the sizing. Build the house well, you shouldn't need 4 tons for 1900 sq ft even in a steamy area. Same with the 80-90,000 BTU 90+ furnaces. We get below zero each winter. That size furnace would be borderline oversized for that house here. I don't imagine you get much below freezing do you?

[malutki]

It is a 9 years old house. I live in Colorado where the air is very dry and especially during the winters. That’s why I want to add a humidifier.

[skunkiechris]

Just curious, why are the installers suggesting the XC95? You lose the lowest heating stage when combining with a two stage heat pump, effectively turning it into an XV95. At least with the XL19i you get the communicating feature, but I can't imagine what the point would be in combining it with an XL16i.

I just went through similar considerations, and ended up with the XL16i over the 19i due to R410a in the 16 vs R22 in the 19, and then the XV95 over XC since there was no advantage to getting the XC.

[malutki]

They really suggested System C. The system B is my way of lowering the cost. Good point on the XV95.

Do you think 3 ton, 80000 BTU is enough for my house?

[skunkiechris]

Do you think 3 ton, 80000 BTU is enough for my house?

I'll say it before someone else does...no way to tell without seeing a load calc!

The real benefit of the 19 over the 16 is humidity control (at least as I understand it.) Personally I don't see much of a reason to go that route in Colorado... I didn't look up the AHRI certificates on those combos with the XC furnace, but when I was looking with the XV, the SEER increase was .75 going from the 16 to the 19 with the 3 ton 4Xtcb coil, and the EER was actually lower on the 19!

[BaldLoonie]

Hmmm, why was I thinking it was new house in the south? Must have been another thread!

Also check to make sure they can put the 16i heat pump with the XC95. I was told that at some point the 16i would be modified to work with the communicating system but didn't know it was done already. And the point about losing the low fire with dual fuel is a good suggestion. Unless you want specifically the communcating system, which is SALTY, look XV95 and figure a Vision Pro IAQ. Look at the heating numbers on the 16i. Usually pretty low on output and HSPF. The 15i R410a unit tends to be much better for less bucks.

[malutki]

Thank you for the tips.

[malutki]

The load calc are as follow:

Heat Gain: 33,606
Heat Loss: 69,226

[skunkiechris]

The load calc are as follow:

Heat Gain: 33,606
Heat Loss: 69,226

Hmm....system A seems to be oversized in both heating and cooling! Also with that system (didn't notice before) the 8000 thermostat won't control all four heating stages. You'll end up with a timer to bring on the second stage of the furnace. Of course being oversized so much you'll probably never need the second stage anyway lol.

[malutki]

Hmm....system A seems to be oversized in both heating and cooling! Also with that system (didn't notice before) the 8000 thermostat won't control all four heating stages. You'll end up with a timer to bring on the second stage of the furnace. Of course being oversized so much you'll probably never need the second stage anyway lol.

4 heating stages? I thought Amana has only 2.

Is 3 ton the best match for my house then?

Thank you very much!

[badtlc]

May I ask why you are going with a 90%+ efficient furnace AND a heat pump? Normally, financially speaking it makes the most sense to get either a heat pump/80% combination or a AC/90%+ combination. You'll most likely never see a payback from a heatpump/90% furnace combination.

[badtlc]

4 heating stages? I thought Amana has only 2.

Is 3 ton the best match for my house then?

Thank you very much!

Heat Pump has 2 stages of heat along with the 2 stages of heat from the AMV9 furnace.

[skunkiechris]

4 heating stages? I thought Amana has only 2.

2 Gas Furnace Stages + 2 Heat Pump Stages = 4 total heating stages

[malutki]

It can get pretty cold here in CO during the winter and the use of heat pump is pretty limited to a few weeks. It can also get pretty hot during the summer. The reason for going with 90%+ efficient furnace is that this is what is going to heat the house for the most of the winter. I get a rebate for going with heat pump instead of A/C. With that rebate heat pump is cheaper than A/C.

[malutki]

2 Gas Furnace Stages + 2 Heat Pump Stages = 4 total heating stages

I get it Would the Vision Pro IAQ t-stat solve that problem?

[skunkiechris]

Yep!

[malutki]

How many tons and BTU should the correct system for my house have?

[RyanHughes]

How many tons and BTU should the correct system for my house have?

Virtually impossible to tell without a Manual J load calculation. Ask the contractor you go with to see a load calc. to ensure proper sizing.

[malutki]

Virtually impossible to tell without a Manual J load calculation. Ask the contractor you go with to see a load calc. to ensure proper sizing.

The load calc are as follow:

Heat Gain: 33,606
Heat Loss: 69,226