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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    4,229
    Quote Originally Posted by jaw444 View Post
    thanks for the reply. If the lack of proper support for the drain line and lack of proper trapping contributed to the cracked pan, do you think when they replace the pan they should also fix the drain line so that it's supported and install a P-trap? In another post, i read that you said you don't usually see P-traps on older models. Mine was manufactured in 2005. Is that considered to be an older model?

    When you say the installer wouldn't have any liability after 3 years, does this mean even if there's clear evidence of improper installation, if there is such evidence?
    thanks
    Well this is where you get into problems with the installer now that three years has passed, most installers only waranty their work for 30+ days, not years, second yes, lack of support is what caused the condensate line to crack at the pan, and as far as the installation of p traps on older units goes, back in the days, it was not deemed necessary, to install a p trap on a RTU. I've seen a many number of RTU drain just fine without a p trap installed, but a p trap will aid in the draining of the condensate pan. Haveing a p trap installed is better than not haveing one installed. The fact here is that you not haveing a p trap on you system is totally beside the point, the problem here is your condensate line was not supported as it should have been and cracked at the pan. Now you may have a legal case here but I would recommend not going that direction and try working it out with the contractor that did the work. Other wise your best bet is takeing the blows and find a contractor that will do the work right the first time.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Las Vegas,NV
    Posts
    745
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger93rsl View Post
    Well this is where you get into problems with the installer now that three years has passed, most installers only waranty their work for 30+ days, not years, second yes, lack of support is what caused the condensate line to crack at the pan, and as far as the installation of p traps on older units goes, back in the days, it was not deemed necessary, to install a p trap on a RTU. I've seen a many number of RTU drain just fine without a p trap installed, but a p trap will aid in the draining of the condensate pan. Haveing a p trap installed is better than not haveing one installed. The fact here is that you not haveing a p trap on you system is totally beside the point, the problem here is your condensate line was not supported as it should have been and cracked at the pan. Now you may have a legal case here but I would recommend not going that direction and try working it out with the contractor that did the work. Other wise your best bet is takeing the blows and find a contractor that will do the work right the first time.

    You aint giving up on that p trap are you? Any unit whether old or new with a pull through coil needs a p trap. So the older ones didnt have one, still doesnt mean it's right. I have seen some units with no trap or drain line and the suction makes the water slosh over the top of the drain pan right into the unit. I found a down shot rtu leaking into a house once, cured the problem with a p trap and drain line.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    4,229
    Quote Originally Posted by Airmechanical View Post
    there were a few versions of Carrier RTU's that came with a built in P-trap installed at the factory

    aside from those all of the other RTU's without a built in P-trap do drain better with traps

    also with P-trap's installed it will eliminate pulling in unwanted hot ambient air!



    .
    Thanks I may be a 15 year veteran in this busniess and damn good at what I do but I don't know everythig, thats why I'm here to help out with what I do know and learn something new thanks for that information

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    4,229
    Quote Originally Posted by sammy37 View Post
    You aint giving up on that p trap are you? Any unit whether old or new with a pull through coil needs a p trap. So the older ones didnt have one, still doesnt mean it's right. I have seen some units with no trap or drain line and the suction makes the water slosh over the top of the drain pan right into the unit. I found a down shot rtu leaking into a house once, cured the problem with a p trap and drain line.
    yea I am hard headed and now I am starting to see your guys point on the p trap thing, thanks for the info and I do stand corrected, we all learn something new every day. And thats why I'm here to learn something new and I sure did today thanks everyone and sorry for beeing such a hard head

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    7
    Thanks for all of your feedback; it was helpful to get a consensus of what experienced people think about the issues involved.

    i called the company that installed the unit today, asked to speak to the head guy, she asked which one, she said there are lots of them. I told her the situation and she connected me to the same guy i talked to when i first contacted them to have the unit installed, the one who oversaw that project.

    I told him i was troubled by having such an expensive repair when the thing is only 3 years old so i called another company for a second opinion, and told him what the other guy said, the drain line unsupported, the lack of a P-trap, the disconnected duct, the extreme rarity of this kind of pan cracking.

    He said P-traps were only necessary if the unit drains into a sewer but not when they just drip off the roof. I pointed out that the installation instructions say installing a trap is necessary. He said he would put a P-trap in if it would make me happy and that it's not a big deal, just a small piece of plastic, but he maintained that it's not needed and that they install without traps all the time.

    He said he does not agree that the drain line needs to be supported with 2x4s, and said he installs lines all the time with them hanging in the air, and that there is "no weight" from the line and it would not cause the pan to crack. He said he's seen pans crack before, after i had said i was told it's extremely rare and they aren't supposed to crack, not on such a recent model. He said the plastic "can dry out" and then it can crack. He said the UV light on the plastic can cause it to become damaged. He said another possibility is that someone tripped over the line and broke the pan. I told him no one has been up there. He said he had no way of knowing that, which is true, he doesn't. Anyway, looking at the line, i can say that if it was laying along the roof and supported by 2x4s, it would be a lot harder for someone to trip over it than it is now with it hanging in the air unsupported. He said if i wanted he would put a strap on the line. I asked if that meant it would be supported by 2x4s. He said no, he didn't intend to do that.

    I told him about the disconnected return duct. He said someone must've knocked it loose. I said that the only people who had been in there were from his company. He said if it was not connected properly, he wouldn't charge me to reconnect it, but otherwise he would charge me for it.

    I asked him whether he thought it was right that when his guy was there the week before to do the maintenance that rather than checking out the leak, he just put duct tape on it. He said that wasn't right, the guy shouldn't have done that. But he was making excuses and justifying it.

    I told him i thought that when the guy came out to do maintenance he should've discovered the disconnected duct. He said they can't find everything.

    He said now, he would have that same guy come and reconnect the duct, replace the drain pan, and if it would make me happy, put in a P-trap and put a strap on the line, and he quoted me a price. The drain pan had already been ordered last week, before i called the other company.

    After i hung up, i called Lennox. They said they aren't responsible for the contractors' work. He said that UV light would not damage the pan for 40 or 50 years, it's been tested. He said in all the time he's worked there, he's never heard of a pan cracking.

    Later, they left a message on my phone machine saying they wanted to come and do the repairs on Thursday. By then, i'd already called the other company and arranged for them to do it (on Thursday). This evening i called them back, to let them know i was not going to have them to the work. It was about 9pm, i was surprised that someone answered the phone. I got his name and told him i wasn't going to have the work done. He said because the pan had already been ordered, "that might be a problem." He said he was "warning" me about that. He was friendly and pleasant but letting me know that because i gave them the go ahead to get the part, that would be some kind of problem (for me, apparently) and tomorrow he would have someone call me about it. I told him the story of why i wasn't having the work done, all the details. At first he said "when you get another company involved, that can be a problem, they will tell you things just to get your business." I told him the other company advised me not to have them do the work but to go back to the company that installed it and ask them to fix it because it wasn't properly installed, which i did, but their representative told me he did not agree with that. He then said i should call in the morning, it could be worked out, he said "We'll make you happy."

    anyway, unless they offer to do all the work for free, i'm through with them.
    of course. The other company's price is substantially more, but i hope and guess that that's because they will do what needs to be done and do it right, and not cut corners.

    Just to think, if i hadn't hired the other guy to come and check behind them, i still wouldn't know that the duct was disconnected and they wouldn't know either, and it would go unrepaired. The guy i talked to earlier was very interested in how the other company could see that the duct was disconnected, he sounded skeptical. He said the guy would have to go into my attic to see it. i dont know if he did. i don't remember him going into the attic. But based on this experience, i think that should be part of routine maintenance, just to check and make sure everything is ok.

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