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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    254
    Quote Originally Posted by dash View Post
    With ductboard you just cut and fit on the job,very esay for them.The other reson to use the vanes is to have the airflow evenly,as directed by the vanes,thru the filter.3 to 4 feet of stright would do the same,but not possible.



    If you follow your plan,ductboard is easier then metal to fab.
    OK, ductboard is easier, but I have that center 2x4 at the front. Each
    square measures 11"x12" opening size. Might be a bit iffy.

    Just for kicks I threw down an old bath rug on the cavity floor, and a
    12" x 18" USPS shipping box fit perfectly up at the front of the rectangle.
    Right there that cut the sound by at least 15%.
    I do plan on using some type of sound absorbing board and line the rest
    the walls in there.

    First I wanna see why I'm getting such a back flow
    of air pushing down from the filter. Shouldn't a return intake draw in air only???
    I'm calling the installer back. Maybe the blower motor could be turned down a tad, if that's even possible.
    Some things need fixing on this install. I'm can feel a few minor cold air leaks at some areas at the evaporator, and there's a stream of air coming down at the plenum where it enters the attic.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    9
    Is the furnace noisy when the grill is off? If not that is a big part of your problem. Like I said below, its sounds like a restriction problem caused by the grill.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    254
    Quote Originally Posted by TrueAirBC View Post
    Is the furnace noisy when the grill is off? If not that is a big part of your problem. Like I said below, its sounds like a restriction problem caused by the grill.
    Hehe, no. I've had the grill off for days now working on this. I set it back on
    with one screw just to hide the ugly cavity.

    With that backpressure from too powerfull an uptake, its affecting the thermostat right across from the AC closet. The air backs out of the
    return vent and makes for an inacurrate high current temp on the thermostat.

    I gotta get that looked into for sure. I think I can work out the sound problem
    myself once I get this entire install thoroughly checked out by them.'

    I think I'll ask for another of their crew tech to fix all this, not the original crew installer.
    Nothing like having the original guy cover his ass with a bunch of quick fixes or something.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    13,250

    watchutalkinboutwillis?

    Calon,

    You wrote:

    1. . . . too powerfull an uptake

    2. The air backs out of the return vent . . .

    3. . . . . and makes for an inacurrate high current temp on the thermostat.
    ----------------------

    Those things don't go together.

    You can't have both a powerful suction / air flow into the return, AND, air coming in the reverse direction Out of the air return.

    Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying? Can you explain that to me again?

    PHM
    --------
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    9
    I realy think if you allow more air to get into your furnace all problems will be solved. Tell them you want a girll that gives you more free area

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    623

    Frown

    Man, am I tired of seeing the word WHOOSHY

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    254
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    Calon,

    You wrote:

    1. . . . too powerfull an uptake

    2. The air backs out of the return vent . . .

    3. . . . . and makes for an inacurrate high current temp on the thermostat.
    ----------------------

    Those things don't go together.

    You can't have both a powerful suction / air flow into the return, AND, air coming in the reverse direction Out of the air return.

    Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying? Can you explain that to me again?

    PHM
    --------


    First of all, I know it sounds wierd, but I am guessing you CAN have an uptake of air at the return and at the same time some kind of backpressure or whatever where you can feel air being driven back down into that return cavity and out of the grill. We can go no further if you think this is an absolute impossibilty.

    Second of all, I am a painting contractor, not an HVAC contractor, so I may have jumped ahead as to what is causing it or the mechanics of it all. Sorry.

    It's almost as if there IS air being correctly sucked in, but at the same time, so much so that some is actually being forced back down into that same return area.

    Trust me when I say I can feel air being expelled from the return intake grate.
    That air rises up to the thermostat directly across from the intake grate and affects the current reading temp of the thermostat.

    At least read back my entire post, all of you. Someone reads my latest post and tells me to get a bigger intake grill, then repeats the same suggestion.

    Any and all info you want me to provide, I will. Read back to the beginning and at least check out my freaking pics. No offence intended to any.

    PS. The Honeywell F300 electronic air cleaner is supposed to allow as free a flow of air as any
    regular filter. In fact...this model does NOT have a post filter. So I can't see that as the cause.

    To sum up. At the same time I'm getting air drawn in, I'm getting a lot of downward air at that same return cavity. Unit sits in a closet, directly below is the return cavity. I'm feeling air being forced out the return grill. I don't know how much more simply I can put it. NEW INSTALL.

    Of course...any and all help welcomed. Oh ya...I'm having those guys back here...lol.
    Otherwise..the AC is cooling pretty well. Some minor air flow leaks at other areas in the closet I should probably not feel with my hand. Probably minor.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    13,250

    I'm not trying to be a ball breaker here but

    It does seems impossible as described and as I understand the issue.

    On one hand we have excessive noise. Which typically results from a lot of air flow.

    On the other hand we have the description that air is flowing Out of the return duct.

    I am just having a problem reconciling that both things are happening simultaneously. <g>

    And let's go back to wht I said originally - let's make sure that you do, in fact; have the correct air flow to start with.

    Then, if you do, we can start on how to first minimize the noise, and then to break the sound-path of the noise, if neccessary.

    PHM
    ------------




    QUOTE=caslon;1925488]First of all, I know it sounds wierd, but I am guessing you CAN have an uptake of air at the return and at the same time some kind of backpressure or whatever where you can feel air being driven back down into that return cavity and out of the grill. We can go no further if you think this is an absolute impossibilty.

    Second of all, I am a painting contractor, not an HVAC contractor, so I may have jumped ahead as to what is causing it or the mechanics of it all. Sorry.

    It's almost as if there IS air being correctly sucked in, but at the same time, so much so that some is actually being forced back down into that same return area.

    Trust me when I say I can feel air being expelled from the return intake grate.
    That air rises up to the thermostat directly across from the intake grate and affects the current reading temp of the thermostat.

    At least read back my entire post, all of you. Someone reads my latest post and tells me to get a bigger intake grill, then repeats the same suggestion.

    Any and all info you want me to provide, I will. Read back to the beginning and at least check out my freaking pics.[/QUOTE]
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    254
    Poodlehead, that's exactly what I am calling them back for. I'm not sure I do have the correct air flow. They installed it and left...it's only later that I noticed this airflow problem.

    That is...an inordinate amount of airflow felt coming out of the return vent just below the AC/Heater closet.

    Maybe it's just normal airflow uptake that is causing what I feel as air coming out of my return vent.
    Seeing as its such a large cavity return area, but I swear I feel air forcing back down.

    Something needs tweaking a little. I've never held my hand over a return vent and felt air coming out.
    I have no doubt that if you were here on the scene, you could size it up immediately.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    13,250

    Let's not jump to any hasty conclusions here! <g>

    But how about this -

    Can you make a piece of paper move Away from the return by holding it where you feel the air coming out?

    I ask because sometimes it does feel like air is flowing out - when it is flowing in. You feel the air on the back of your hand and mis-interpret what is actually happening.

    And I'm just trying to help here - let's just walk this thing through. <g>
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    254
    I'll try it now. Thanks.

    There WAS uptake of a paper inside the cavity at the filter, I did that.
    (at the same time there was air seemingly forced down so much that small
    debris was blowing around inside the cavity. I may be wrong, but I think it was
    downward air somehow causing that light debris to move around.

    Anyways...will test it now.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    254
    Actually..the paper DOES stick to the grill vent. WOW.

    Why did it feel as if there was downward pressure of air coming into that
    large return vent cavity area with the AC/Heater just above?

    Is that the reason? The close proximity of the two?

    I'm still getting higher than expected thermostat readings in my hallway.
    That's probably due to lots of warm air collecting there? My kitchen and
    fridge and all my living room pc's heat making for a hallway higher than normal reading?

    Having a small condo with an AC closet and a large return right below it probably threw me off?

    Thanks dude. I still have some small leaks they need to take care of.

    I also have another question about putting in a larger register in my living area. I'll save that for a seperate post and pics to show what I mean.

    Part of what solved this (maybe) was my putting a USPS box at the front of the cavity filter intake.
    I will post later what I mean. After I did that...lots less "feeling of air being forced out."

    Thanks again. Hang on...pic coming up about my USPS box temp fix.

    EDIT:

    Try and check out my earlier pic of the return "cavity."
    I put in a rug and just this "experimental quick attempt"
    You'd be surprised how much it reduced the sound "whoosh" and the feeling of air coming out of the vent. It's just a temp experiment fix..but wow...drastic improvement.
    I stuck a USPS box at the front and one other box at the left to break up the movement of air.
    Huge difference!


  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Posts
    9
    Because the cavity is so large what you are likely feeling is such of a rolling effect. The air is "whoshing" around in that cavity.
    The air is being pulled up so strongly becasue it has no where else to draw from, if it were directly ducted to the grill it would likely pull in any small pets you have. lol
    Is there any way you could put anyother return air on the opposite side of the wall that the grill is on?
    I did read your post front to back and looked at your pics prior to my statements.
    My response about the grill size is only becasue I have seen this before more than once. Your furnace is starving for air and likely has a higher than normal temperature rise. Also I am not saying to get a larger grill only one that has more space in between the blades (free area for the air to travel through).

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