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07-12-2008, 09:31 PM #1New Guest
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
Contract specifies sheet metal - how much flex OK?
I just wish I'd found this site before I signed the contract. I don't know what to do, or even what question to ask first, so I'll try to just jump in.
I had a very old unit which I had recharged about 10 years ago, when I first bought my house, then I just didn't bother with it. I live near New York City, so most normal people think air conditioning is needed here, but the heat doesn't bother me except when it's over 90, and that's only a few days a year. However, this past winter I got a rash, and finally reached the conclusion that the air quality in my house had something to do with it - although I've become sensitive to bad air anywhere and now avoid going to movie theaters for that reason.
The way I picked my contractor was I asked my favorite plumber and the local environmental organization for recommendations, and when they both recommended the same company, which is local and has been in business since 1938, I decided that was the company I should use. I did check for the BBB history, which was clean, as well as do some google searches for problems with the law which didn't turn up anything. The claims on the company's website about all NATE certified mechanics and affiliation with all major air conditioning and heating professional associations sounded good to me, but I didn't check them.
I signed a contract which included 3 options, and I took all three.
The basic option was for removal of old equipment, installation of a Carrier Variable Speed Infinity air handler hung from the attic rafters (the old unit was causing a crack in the bedroom ceiling), installation of a Carrier Infinity 5 Ton Condensing Unit (we had verbally agreed on a 2100 SEER - my idea, don't ask, which the contractor honored although I'm noticing now it wasn't in the contract), and the installation of all necessary insulated sheetmetal and flexible duct work. No, he didn't do a manual J calculation on my home to arrive at the 5 ton condensing unit, although in his defense about 20% of the homes in my neighborhood have the same floor plan and the contractor does a lot of work here. He did show me his NATE certification, and he may have done manual J calculations on enough of these homes that now he can eyeball them.
Add on #1 was an Aprilaire Air Cleaner.
Add on #2 was removal and installation of new sheetmetal ductwork with connection to the existing supply diffuser locations with new diffusers.
Trying to keep this short, here are my questions:
Is this much flex ducting acceptable given that I requested Add on #2? I think none of the flex runs are over 15 feet (though a couple probably come very close to 15 feet). However, this is certainly not what I had thought I would be getting when I asked for the new sheetmetal option.
Does this look like an acceptable installation (images are attached)?
Would I be notified if a building permit was obtained, or does that happen behind the scenes? Since I thought I was dealing with a reputable contractor, I assumed that he was doing everything on the up and up, but now I have my doubts. Who should I ask?
I became suspicious when they said they were through removing the old fiberglass insulated ductwork, and I poked my head up in the attic and saw there was a lot of ductwork still left up there. It's a long story, and I can go into more detail, but it was at this point I started doing my homework and discovered this website, as well as finding out that the contractor really wasn't a member of the professional organizations that he claimed.
The contractor had verbally agreed that pink fiberglass insulation would not be used in the system (because of my allergies), which he kind of observed. Although the flex (thermaflex) ducts have fiberglass, it isn't in the airstream, and the sheet metal used in the main trunk has some sort of foil covered bubble wrap type insulation on it rather than fiberglass.
When the installation was practically complete (just a little drywall damage touch up was left), the contractor presented me with an invoice for more than the contract amount, saying that the non-fiberglass insulation had been more expensive than he had anticipated. I asked for a break-down of charges, which he provided (sort of). I confronted him with the fact his website made false claims about his professional association memberships. He said he didn't know what was on the website; that a relative had done it for him, and that he'd correct it right away. I also told him that the contract had called for sheetmetal, and he had used flex. While I was confronting him, he turned as white as a sheet and was obviously very upset, fumbling through his wallet to show me his NATE certification.
I'm now able to spend a good 12 hours per day inside my house, which I wasn't able to do since January because of my allergies, and the system cools the house.
I have yet to make a final payment. Advice from my children is that I'm being taken by the contractor. They say I should pay less than what the contract calls for, not more. This whole thing is making me even crazier than I was to begin with, so I haven't yet decided what I should do. I know there are two sides to every story (I'm an independent contractor who does website development myself) and I can only tell my side. I called one of the contractors whom I should have asked for a 2nd bid in the first place, but he's busy with people's real emergencies and wouldn't have time to look at my installation until after the summer.
So, any advice as to how I should go about deciding what to do would be much appreciated.
07-12-2008, 10:10 PM #2Banned
- Join Date
- Aug 2002
- Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
All but the 5th pic looks okay,flex sized correctly is not an issue.
I don't care for the supply take-off from the air handler,with the sharp angle,but I can't say it's an issue.
Your SEER depepends on the actual model numbers,at home now,but sure that the 5 ton won't be 21,just what the call the series in the brochure.
Static pressure of the duct system will tell you if the duct system is right.
07-12-2008, 10:32 PM #3
I agree. I don't like the transition either, and the 5th pic is poor workmanship. Other than that, you're okay if duct is sized correctly.
07-12-2008, 11:43 PM #4Professional Member*
- Join Date
- Mar 2001
- North Carolina
I don't like the way it is hung with chains in front of the doors. glad I don't have to service it. cant pull blower our or coil if you needed to without taking the chains off. also if you look at the last picture top right hand side the way they have it hung with the hook screwed into the rafter don't look like its anchored to good to me I would much rather have it bolted with fender washers on each side at the very least. also the drain pan looks like it is not under the entire air handler like it should be.
Last edited by obxtech; 07-13-2008 at 12:02 AM.
07-13-2008, 12:31 AM #5
If the contract says installed for XXXX dollars. Then its the salesmans problem.
If it s says for about xxxx dollars, then you owe him more.
Doubt he would give you a refund if it cost less to install then he thought.Contractor locator map
How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?
07-13-2008, 09:45 PM #6Regular Guest
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Vancouver Canada
I agree the fitting off the end is not perfect, but its looks to be a very tight fit in there. There may not be room to put in a nice taper.
I have put in a system like this before and it worked like a charm, like every one else said if it is sized correctly it should be fine.
The price quoted is the price, NEVER do I ask my customers for more money unless a "unforseen" arises. Even then I mention it as soon as it does.
He should honor his quote to you.
07-13-2008, 09:52 PM #7Professional Member*
- Join Date
- Jan 2001
- Pamnyra VA.
Let's not name names of companies here........thanks.
Last edited by HeyBob; 07-14-2008 at 03:35 AM.