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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    151

    Install not off to a good start/need advice

    Having my heat pump and furnace installed today. One of the co-owners of the company came out with the team to look things over and get them started. Well, after studying for about 30 minutes, they came to the conclusion that they would not be able to install the Aprilaire spaceguard 2200. I have 2 returns coming in on either side of the bottom plenum so they were going to install the spaceguard horizontal. Well, there was just not enough room vertically to fit the lower plenum, spaceguard, transition to furnace, furnace and then the coil. So then was no room to make the connections to the supply lines. Oh well, I'm disappointed, but if it won't fit, it won't fit. At least I will save a few bucks.

    Secondly, one of the main reasons I went with this company was because they were going to run new supply lines to my (2) back bedrooms. I have (2) 10x10 runs feeding that side of the house. 1 of those has (2) 6 inch lines and the other has (4) 6 inch lines. The co-owner's solution was to just come off the end of each of those 10x10 lines with 6 inch flex to each bedroom. His reasoning was that those 10x10s were no where near maxed out on available airflow, so it was ok to just add another 6 inch line and feed another wall of the bedroom? Was he correct? To me it just doesn't seem right. Instead of going through the trouble of cutting new vents and all that, I suggested maybe increasing the 6" lines to those bedrooms to 8". He said that may or may not help. He did say the new furnace should flow more air than the old, and with the extra air flow, and 8 inch lines it should help some. Right now, I have told him to just do the 8 inch lines, but I think I still have time to change my mind if I need to.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    67,741
    As I recall, your furnace sits on an 18 or 20" high return box.
    Wonder why they didn't make a 10" high return box that was wide enough to bring your returns straight down, then there would have been enough room.
    Are those 10x10 ducts lined, which would mean their ID would be 8x8.
    The 8" will increase air flow. Just no way to tell if it will be enough.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    burlington county n.j.
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    9,706
    coming off the end of the 10x10 ducts will kill airflow to other registers...


    no way to run new ducts directly back to plenum ??

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    151
    Thanks for the quick reply Beenthere.

    Hmm, so you are saying make the lower plenum wide enough the returns just drop straight down into them? I don't know if they considered that or not. He did say something about the drain pump had to be so many inches off the floor. Maybe that is part of the reason they couldn't use a smaller lower plenum. Or maybe they just didn't want to go through the hassle of reworking those return lines to make everything work.

    They are at lunch right now. I went and took some quick measurements. The vertical space they need to fit is about 89 inches. The furnace and coil together are 62 3/4" The spaceguard is 10". So that would leave the lower plenum and the spaceguard to furnace transition about 17" to work with.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    151
    Quote Originally Posted by t527ed View Post
    coming off the end of the 10x10 ducts will kill airflow to other registers...


    no way to run new ducts directly back to plenum ??
    That was my thinking too, it would just steal airflow from the other vents.

    I don't know what is involved for running new ducts from the plenum. Maybe the access is very limited.

    I do know that I am not very happy with how things are going so far.

  6. #6
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    Mar 2005
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    burlington county n.j.
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    Quote Originally Posted by acobra289 View Post
    Thanks for the quick reply Beenthere.

    Hmm, so you are saying make the lower plenum wide enough the returns just drop straight down into them? I don't know if they considered that or not. He did say something about the drain pump had to be so many inches off the floor. Maybe that is part of the reason they couldn't use a smaller lower plenum. Or maybe they just didn't want to go through the hassle of reworking those return lines to make everything work.

    They are at lunch right now. I went and took some quick measurements. The vertical space they need to fit is about 89 inches. The furnace and coil together are 62 3/4" The spaceguard is 10". So that would leave the lower plenum and the spaceguard to furnace transition about 17" to work with.

    sounds like there would be enough room to make a wide base like beenthere said to bring both returns straight down into. then build up from there with filter, furnace and coil.


    lunch time and they don't have new equipment in place and ductwork done by now........

    garage installs around here are soooooooo easy, and fast.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    151
    The owner came back and I spoke with him about it again. I asked if the drain was the reason it wouldn't work. He said that was part of it, but even if I just used a gravity feed instead of a pump it would still be very tight. He said something about the furnace motor had to be so many inches off the floor.

    He is losing the sale of the spaceguard, so I would assume he would try his best to make it work. Then again, maybe he figures modifying the returns would cost him more time/money than just losing the sale of the filter. During the sales portion of this install, I was told that it would be tight, but it would probably work. And I did have one other company that gave me an estimate tell me it wouldn't fit. So this doesn't come as a complete surprise.

    They are fabricating a new lower plenum anyway, so if there was a way to make it work, you would think they would have been able to figure something out.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    Blower motor is considered a source of ignition point. It is required to be 18" above the floor.

    here is a quick, not very good drawing of what can be done. And still have the required height above the floor for the blower motor.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Thanks been. I understand what you are talking about now.

    At this point, I think they may be to far along to install it now. But regardless I will show this to the owner and ask why this solution wasn't considered.

    I don't have a lot of faith in these guys. But maybe they will surprise me and do a 1/2 way decent install. I'm not holding my breath tho.

    And since they are not running new ducts to the bedrooms as stated in the contract, I think I should receive some sort of deduction in the price. Is that not reasonable? Even though it was my choice to just use 8" runs in place of the current 6". In my opinion, the way they were going to run the new ducts was the easy way out and would not have helped the situation.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    Unfortunately.
    Many times, salesman promise more then the installers can, or are willing to deliver.

    I believe that is what you are running into.

    Somebody that promises based on $$$$ coming in, and somebody that installs based on $$$$ going out.
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    151
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Unfortunately.
    Many times, salesman promise more then the installers can, or are willing to deliver.

    I believe that is what you are running into.

    Somebody that promises based on $$$$ coming in, and somebody that installs based on $$$$ going out.
    Yep, that appears to be my situation.

    Once they are done, or almost done, I will start posting some pics. I hope there are no major issues for you guys to point out, but if there are, you can be sure I will bring them to the company's attention.

    Thanks again to all those who responded.

  12. #12
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    Central Maryland
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    Quote Originally Posted by acobra289 View Post
    Secondly, one of the main reasons I went with this company was because they were going to run new supply lines to my (2) back bedrooms.
    Huh?

    Is that in the contract? Then read the owner the contract and have him start doing the work he contracted for.

    If it's not in the contract, demand the owner get the salesman to come by, so he can watch you rip him a new one.

    -HF

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    151
    Quote Originally Posted by hangfirew8 View Post
    Huh?

    Is that in the contract? Then read the owner the contract and have him start doing the work he contracted for.

    If it's not in the contract, demand the owner get the salesman to come by, so he can watch you rip him a new one.

    -HF
    It's in the contract. But the co-owner's idea of running the new ducts was to just come off the end of the old lines. See the pic below. This is one of the 2 main lines that serve this side of the house. The 6" on the left feeds a bathroom. And there was a 6" on the right that fed the bedroom that I felt wasn't getting enough air. He wanted to come off the end of that run with a new line and put a vent in another part of the room. Maybe I was wrong, but I felt like that wouldn't help the problem as it was just taking air from an already somewhat weak line. So yes, he was going to run new lines, but I told him I would just rather increase those 6" lines that feed the bedrooms to 8". I didn't want them cutting up my floors to install new lines that I didn't think would help.

    He wanted to come right off the end of this for the new duct to the bedroom. The story is basically the same on the other side of the basement. He wanted to come off the main line that was already feeding the bedroom along with another bedroom and small bathroom.


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