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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    The stand may have n opening much smaller the the unit,if so this kills return air flow.Another practice is two elbows of flex in the stand.

    Both common in your area and both cripple the airflow to the farthest rooms.

    Is the existing return ducted from the closet,if so what size duct to the return grille??

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    19
    The return isn't ducted. The air handler sits in a closet on top of plywood. Directly underneath it is the return, they cut a whole in the wall and installed a filter grill. They didn't seal anything either and is why it was pulling air from the attic.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    SW Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,022
    Quote Originally Posted by Isailer View Post
    The return isn't ducted. The air handler sits in a closet on top of plywood. Directly underneath it is the return, they cut a whole in the wall and installed a filter grill. They didn't seal anything either and is why it was pulling air from the attic.
    It may have been one of my posts that you saw the warning concerning hot air from the attic with the return under the air handler.

    I have seen that too many times, therefore checks for Return air leaks ought to be done every time & logged on the systems record for the next tech. IMO, service logs should be kept by both the tech & the customer; saves time on future service calls.

    Another way to check that situation is to check the condenser air discharge temperature verses the indoor SA/RA split & wet bulb. If the condenser split is real high & the indoor split is low, check the wet bulb or humidity latent load, that will tell you if there is a discrepancy, indicating hot air is entering the return some point.

    That, & low airflow situations explains a lot of the high utility bills. - Darrell

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    Quote Originally Posted by Isailer View Post
    The return isn't ducted. The air handler sits in a closet on top of plywood. Directly underneath it is the return, they cut a whole in the wall and installed a filter grill. They didn't seal anything either and is why it was pulling air from the attic.
    Is the plywood cut out to match the size of the air handler inlet??

    With that setup,your return isn't all that undersized,just the grille.It is usually diffficult to add a return to your type setup,other than a hole in another wall of the closet,doubt that will make much difference .

    Are there any closed doors between the return grille and the BR area??


    Check the BR's for airflow ,with the doors closed and then open,if there's a large difference,you need jumper returns from the BR's.If not you likely need more supply air to the BR's.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    19
    Dash,
    The air handler inlet size is good. You're correct that it's just the grill that is undersized and I can't install a larger one because there isn't enough space.

    It wont be too difficult to expand the return since I'm going to fur out the wall beside the closet to enclose the additional duct.

    There isn't any closed doors, it's merely a entryway approx. 3' x 7' leading into the hallway. The hallway is approx 30 feet long and connects all the bedrooms which are approx. 165sq ft each. The house is approx 3000sq ft to give you an idea of the overall size.

    I tried shutting the doors to the bedrooms and 3 of them get about 1-2 degrees cooler with the door left shut (after several hours). I didn't get a chance to check the master bedroom which is a bigger room.

    ETA - There is still about a 2-3 degree difference between the rest of the house and the hallway/bedrooms.

    Darrel,
    Since I've sealed the leaks I can already tell that the system runs for a much shorter period of time. In fact, at night it short cycles more than anything.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    "I tried shutting the doors to the bedrooms and 3 of them get about 1-2 degrees cooler with the door left shut (after several hours)."

    That is strange.Sure it wasn't just getting cooler outside?

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    19
    I just rechecked since I had left one of the doors shut and the bedroom is 2 degrees cooler than the hallway. There are no supply vents in the hallway only the bedrooms. I know this is true during the heat of the day as well.

    I'm pretty sure the master bedroom may get warmer since it is already warmer than the other rooms (reads 79 when the living room is 76) but I'll check it tomorrow with the door shut.

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isailer View Post
    I just rechecked since I had left one of the doors shut and the bedroom is 2 degrees cooler than the hallway. There are no supply vents in the hallway only the bedrooms. I know this is true during the heat of the day as well.

    I'm pretty sure the master bedroom may get warmer since it is already warmer than the other rooms (reads 79 when the living room is 76) but I'll check it tomorrow with the door shut.
    The thing to check is ,does the BR get cooler with the door closed,not in relation to the hall.

    Also is there more or less air flow(feel it from standing on a ladder) with the door open or closed.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    19
    Okay, the air flow is definitely reduced when the door is closed. It takes a few seconds and then progressively tapers down. I assume as pressure builds in the room.

    I've opened the door to the one bedroom so I'll see if it gets warmer...

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    19
    Okay, I measure the temps again with door closed vs. door open. The one center bedroom does get colder when the door is shut by about two degrees. I also, noticed the hallway was cooler with this door open. Two other bedrooms would both increase in temp with the doors shut by two degrees. The Master bedrooms temperature didn't change after 2 hours with the doors shut. It's also the warmest room (4 degrees warmer than the others).

    So what’s the verdict? Do you think installing a remote return in the hallway will be beneficial at all?

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
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    18,836
    Quote Originally Posted by Isailer View Post
    Okay, I measure the temps again with door closed vs. door open. The one center bedroom does get colder when the door is shut by about two degrees. I also, noticed the hallway was cooler with this door open. Two other bedrooms would both increase in temp with the doors shut by two degrees. The Master bedrooms temperature didn't change after 2 hours with the doors shut. It's also the warmest room (4 degrees warmer than the others).

    So what’s the verdict? Do you think installing a remote return in the hallway will be beneficial at all?

    Assuming the indoor unit and coil is clean and set on the correct fan speed.
    If the rooms in question,cool well enough with the doors open,then you need they need a return path (jumpers to the hallwayor ducted returns).

    If they don't cool well enough,with the doors open,they need more supply air,and possiblely return as well.

    Insulation can be added to the attic area ,which will reduce the amount of air needed,assuming it's less then ideal now.

    A single return ,doesn't indicate any problem,as long as supply air has a return path,unobstructed ,to that single return.

    What is the temperature difference between the rooms with issues and the main area of the home??

    Where is the stat located?

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    19
    The indoor coil is clean. I carefully cleaned it with a brush and a vacuum. I just replaced the blower motor because the old one started going too slow (and had a burning smell) and it wasn't moving enough air to cool the house.

    If that's the case I'll have to inspect the supply duct to the master bedroom since it's not cooling well. I can tell that the air is blowing through the supply register at a lower velocity then the others and that register is the "end of the line". The insulation that is blown in the attic is rated R-38 and is still higher than 16" above the bedroom. I'll be blowing more in a few weeks though because the insulation has settled above the kitchen (from walking on it).

    Temperature difference during the day is approx 2 degrees warmer in the hallway and bedrooms with the exception of the master bedroom which is 4 degrees warmer. At night it's pretty even except the master bedroom is still a couple degrees warmer.

    The stat is located at the center of the house in the living room.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
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    18,836
    Coil could be "impacted",are you sure you have the correct motor and speed.

    Sounding like a DIY deal.

    Best to get a Pro to test the static and make sure the motor is correct.
    Last edited by dash; 07-10-2008 at 05:13 PM.

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