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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alberta Canada
    Posts
    2,246

    Oh Really

    [QUOTE=trane;1916501]
    Quote Originally Posted by 21degrees View Post

    Copper cost has nothing to do with it. Formicary corrosion is whats behind the change.
    So it took them thirty years to figure that one out. I was at the factory and we ask the question will carrier be going to aluminum coil and the response was we are trying but if copper prices keep increasing we will have no option.
    Do it right the first time.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Clearwater, Fl
    Posts
    358
    A coil made of a single material (aluminum) will not corrode as quickly as a coil made of 2 different materials (copper and aluminum). It is a fact.

    Carrier at one time had an aluminum coil similar to Tranes' design but they could not get the process right and discontinued using it. The aluminum tubing in the Trane coil is thicker than the copper tubing in all other units that I have seen.

    Before we started dealing Trane I was very leery of the aluminum coil and how it was joined to the copper inside the unit. Our rep brought by a cross section of the coil to show the thickness of the tubing and how well they joined the copper and aluminum. That showed me that my concerns were based on what other people had told me, not by my own experience.

    Living on the salt water and owning boats I already knew that dissimilr metals corrode faster than something made of one type of metal.
    Last edited by forcryinoutloud; 07-06-2008 at 02:32 PM. Reason: Carrier tried

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Here and there
    Posts
    4,799
    Coil leaks are a virtual non issue here. I have had even the most dedicated Trane dealers Biatch about coil leaks and compressor failures especially on the 19I. Not bashing just pounding my chest proudly. ( our stuff will have an issue soon )
    i belong to peta ... people eating tasty animals. all my opinions are just mine.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NC
    Posts
    2,504
    [QUOTE=21degrees;1916484]
    Quote Originally Posted by Airmechanical View Post
    how much Lemmox stock do you own?


    I don't see you giving air mech any **** for brand bashing. Spine fin you are definetly wrong as far the best and as far as aluminum being far superior than copper, give your head a shake. Copper will protect itself from corrosion we have buildings that are close to 70 years old with copper on roof. Do you remember electrical problems with aluminum, what makes you so sure that won't happen here. By the way trane went with aluminum because of the copper cost.
    electical problems with aluminum have nothing to do with refrigeration applications. Aluminum is poor conductor of electricity. Thats why the switch to copper was made.

    As far as the aluminum coils, they will not corrode as fast due to the fact that there isn't 2 metals involved. Less braze joints, etc.etc...

    The spine fin coil lasts longer in salt areas....I live at the beach, I know. A standard Goodman copper coil will corrode out and leak years quicker than the Trane spine fin coil. Now inland, the copper condenser coil may be a better application due to less salt content in the air. But as for here on the water, nothing outlasts the Trane spine fin coil.

    Trane went to aluminum. I bet the cost of copper had an effect on it but not the only effect. Trane strives to be the best. So wheres the problem there?



    And before you start going off about Tranewashed, that I am not. I no longer work for a Trane dealer. I work for a service only company so I deal with all brands of systems at all ages. And I'm here to tell you that I see a lot of older Trane systems still kickin strong, while others are failing and are in need of replacement. Installation is key. Provided any system is installed properly, you shouldn't encounter a lot of problems. But if its installed improperly, then you can expect to be working on it a lot.
    I fully support the military and the War on Terrorism.


    If you don't know, then don't do. If you don't know and still do, then be prepared to pay someone else a lot to undo what you did and then do it right.

    If you do know, then do. But do it right. Otherwise, you may not be doing it long.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    midwest
    Posts
    2,868
    [QUOTE=21degrees;1916508]
    Quote Originally Posted by trane View Post

    So it took them thirty years to figure that one out. I was at the factory and we ask the question will carrier be going to aluminum coil and the response was we are trying but if copper prices keep increasing we will have no option.
    I'm sure the decision makers for Carrier were walking you through the factory.
    Formicary corrosion is one of the biggest issues with coils and Trane is trying to improve the products they sell. If copper costs are the issue I guess I missed the price drop on the new aluminum coils.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alberta Canada
    Posts
    2,246

    lets get it right

    [QUOTE=iraqveteran;1916535][QUOTE=21degrees;1916484]
    electical problems with aluminum have nothing to do with refrigeration applications. Aluminum is poor conductor of electricity. Thats why the switch to copper was made.

    Not true, aluminum has a higher expansion rate than copper and the connection on the switches were coming loose and creating hot spots.
    Also when you work it, it becomes brittle. Now think of what a condensor does when it is working.


    As far as the aluminum coils, they will not corrode as fast due to the fact that there isn't 2 metals involved. Less braze joints, etc.etc...

    True, but they will become more brittle than copper.

    The spine fin coil lasts longer in salt areas....I live at the beach, I know. A standard Goodman copper coil will corrode out and leak years quicker than the Trane spine fin coil. Now inland, the copper condenser coil may be a better application due to less salt content in the air. But as for here on the water, nothing outlasts the Trane spine fin coil.

    Where did salt water come into the equation.

    Trane went to aluminum. I bet the cost of copper had an effect on it but not the only effect. Trane strives to be the best. So wheres the problem there?

    They all strive to be the best while keeping cost on top of there little minds.

    So once again if you are not brand washed, what does lennox do that is so bad. I am a Carrier dealer and have not sold lennox in 4 or 5 years, but still do start ups on tranes for another company and lennox.
    Do it right the first time.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Clearwater, Fl
    Posts
    358
    Salt water came into play because the OP lives on the East coast of Florida.

    The only thing I read about Lennox was a poster that feels that they could do better with making certain parts more accessable. That and the parts availabilty to non - Lennox dealers (in my area atleast).

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alberta Canada
    Posts
    2,246

    Just so you know

    [QUOTE=trane;1916537][QUOTE=21degrees;1916508]

    I'm sure the decision makers for Carrier were walking you through the factory.

    No, but afterwards they had 3 of their top level representatives, Design, Marketing and testing. Talk to us and had a 5 hour discussion on what improvements we would like to see and what was important to us the dealers.

    corrosion is one of the biggest issues with coils and Trane is trying to improve the products they sell.

    What about expansion and contraction and heat transfer

    If copper costs are the issue I guess I missed the price drop on the new aluminum coils.

    Yah, just like I mist the price drop when our dollar gained strength.
    Last edited by 21degrees; 07-06-2008 at 03:26 PM.
    Do it right the first time.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alberta Canada
    Posts
    2,246

    Good Point

    [QUOTE=forcryinoutloud;1916549]Salt water came into play because the OP lives on the East coast of Florida.

    I live in the west and we don't have any salt water within 1000 kms of us. I did not realize he was in florida.
    Do it right the first time.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NC
    Posts
    2,504
    Are we done yet?

    Trane, Lennox, Carrier, Goodman, York, Payne, Bryant, Amana, etc.etc...

    We obviously all have our preferences. But lets get back on topic here...

    Installation is key. Each particular brand has their ups and downs. Location does play a small factor but when it comes down to it, the installation is what matters most.


    We have turned this thread into a brand bashing contest. Everyone feels their line is better than the rest and will stop at nothing to protect thier precious names. And everyone has their own ideas as to what we feels is best and what lacks improvement.
    I fully support the military and the War on Terrorism.


    If you don't know, then don't do. If you don't know and still do, then be prepared to pay someone else a lot to undo what you did and then do it right.

    If you do know, then do. But do it right. Otherwise, you may not be doing it long.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    25
    Trane is great by my opinion, but you know what they say about opinions.
    Lennox is great as long as it doesn't break down.
    I agree that the system is only as good as the installer. However in my area it is very difficult to get direct replacement parts for Lennox, with no local Lennox distributor and the cost seems very high.
    Once again I would go with either based on the company. Look them up with the BBB. Ask the company about themselves, how long in business, are they an authorized dealer of the brand they sale (this isn't necessarily an indicator of good or bad), warranty... Parts will be covered by the brand, but what does the company offer on labor for warranty?...
    I wouldn't really recommend attic installs if there is another option where it can be serviced easier. If it does need to go in the attic, have them put the air filter in the house were you can change it easily.
    Don't be afraid to shop around for other companies and options too.

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    west point, ga.
    Posts
    328
    O.K. for my 2 cents.If I had to work on anything by choice it would be rheem just because you don't have to kill yourself to change anything.Not saying they are a better brand than any thing else.I don't bash other brands because they all break and I get paid to fix them.Back on topic.Both Trane and lennox are good dependable units if installed right and maintained.

    The company I work for deals with lennox and you can't beat there extended warranty.
    Best of luck.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    11,347

    *

    i did HVAC in Miami FL. from 1980-2004 many many homes near the salt water

    i know the spine fin coil coupled with Tranes Big Orange compressors was one of the best HVAC products ever designed

    that being said;

    i'll be honest with you guys, up until 5 years ago you would not catch me installing anything but Trane or Am/Standard

    nowadays with companies outsourcing unit parts and assembly out of the country

    i do beleive most systems are created equal

    i prefer Goodman for every new system i install, i always include 10 year parts and labor FACTORY warranty

    Goodman has improved tremendously over the past few years, and has caught up to the quality

    of all the other big HVAC companies

    the point is as stated find a quality contractor, most HVAC products these days are created equal

    oh and mr. 21degrees RELAX




    .

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