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  1. #66
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Lancaster PA
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    67,755
    That Jon guy. he's always thinking ahead.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  2. #67
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    NC
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    1,460
    I don't mean to demean anybody, but if KRUSTY is so smart why does his spelling s**k so much. Don't knock folks for what they do for a living.

  3. #68
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    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
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    67,755
    Maybe its because of his Krusty fingers.
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  4. #69
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    6,285
    Quote Originally Posted by ncboston View Post
    I don't mean to demean anybody, but if KRUSTY is so smart why does his spelling s**k so much. Don't knock folks for what they do for a living.
    He did say he was a math guy...Maybe he doesn't have mozilla .....excuse me I mean Mozilla....

  5. #70
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
    Have you never been to a forum before?

    All the bickering feels like home to me

    Seriously though we try and give the advice that best fits the situation People miss sentences or get in a hurry or say things without fully thinking them through sometimes or at least I do. Whatever the case people will disagree at times.

    The board moderates good information and will call out information that is misleading or not quiet true. Even then it may still be someones opinion that it's right or wrong way to do it....but still up for discussion unless it's clear cut case.

    In a situation where someone is asking for advice there may not be a 100% right/wrong way to answer....the lines are slightly blurry.

    Can you recommend a good car dealer.....I seem to have the same problems as you refer to.....as a matter of fact if you can recommend a fast food place, restaurant, car garage, chef, (sorry I'm hungry), house cleaner....I seem to have the same problem s with all those. I will think of some others you can recommend to me and will get back later.
    Point is NO ONE likes car dealers. Why Because they charge a lot of money, and you always leave feeling like you got screwed. Is that the group you want to be associated with?

    All the others are fairly easy to sample and figure out what you like. Your business is not one. My point is and the OP's point was. How do we, when looking for reputable help in your industry, find it?
    Most here don't seem to know.

    Clay

  6. #71
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Its no harder to find a HVAC guy, then to find a good auto repair guy.
    And you tell if an auto repair guy is good until you've him either.
    Yeah, no kidding. Is that good? Don't you want some way to sort it out? Or is the current system okay?

    All I'm trying to get at is, don't say "find a good HVAC guy first", without shedding some light on this process.

    Clay

  7. #72
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,755
    If it was easy. Instead of saying find a good HVAC guy.
    We'd say go to this guy.
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  8. #73
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    48
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    If it was easy. Instead of saying find a good HVAC guy.
    We'd say go to this guy.
    I realize it's not easy. I also appreciate most of your comments beenthere. Just as a reference, you suggested the site: http://www.nationalcomfortinstitute.com/find.cfm

    When I originally did this, I called the two numbers that came up in the list that were within 40 miles, and both said I should call someone closer to my home, because it wasn't worth it for them to come out. They had no suggestions as to who to call though. So I was back to square one.


    Clay

  9. #74
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Central Maryland
    Posts
    246
    Quote Originally Posted by krusty2515 View Post
    ]Knowing this guy was a total fraud, I asked him to do a manual J just to get my money's worth. His response was " I don't need to. I already know what the problem is. Your unit is too weak, and your ducts have to be modified for your new unit that i will be installing."
    You are mistaken. A total fraud would take your money and disappear. This contractor, most likely, would take your money and give you a (non-optimal, oversized) system that would really cool your house. It would cost you more in electricity and not last as long as a properly sized system, but I bet it would work. I'm sure he has lots of satisfied customers who don't know better, and they would also contend with your characterization of fraud.

    His price was not out of range of sanity at all. Duct work is expensive. 5 ton units cost a lot more than 3 tons. Is this fraud? No. It's not not optimal service, that is all. Maybe your ducts really do need service. Unless you pay money to have flow, resistance, leak, etc etc tests done, YOU don't know. YOU are guessing.

    I don't know if you are a scientist or a mathematician, but I suspect the latter. You said your got several different answers, and you don't know which one was right. A mathematician looks for one right answer. If you were a scientist, you might realize that they might all be right!

    Remember the guy who said the leak was easy to find? Well, it is, if he has a leak detector and knows who to use it. Duct sizing? Duct leaks? Unit sizing? Insulation? Envelope leaks? Return placement? Every one of them may be part of the problem you have. There is no physical law that says some of these guys must be wrong.

    I'll tell you one thing straight up. If you complain about a 1991 Rheem system to another type of dealer, 99.99% of the time they will say "time for a new system." If you complain to a Rheem dealer, you have a small chance they might bother to try to fix it while saying "be prepared to buy a new system in a year or two."

    Why?

    Systems are only engineered to last 10 to 15 years. If you get a superb install and great maintenance, maybe a few more years. Customer satisfaction is not built by band-aiding old systems for new customers beyond their useful lifetime, especially when they never worked right. Every contractor that comes in and hears your litany of complaints thinks to himself, I'll put up with him if he drops several grand on a new system, otherwise I'll just blow him off.

    Unfortunately for you, you invested your time building good will with a contractor who was incompetent and unable to help you. You are also paying for new systems quotes from repair men instead of talking to salesmen for free. There are upsides and downsides to both approaches. You don't know who to trust. This is life.

    At some point you have to choose who to believe and what to do, repair, remediate, or upgrade. You want that decision to come to you on a silver platter. It won't. Why don't you start by spending a few bucks on the homeowner version of Manual-J, linked above as HVAC-Calc. Then you will have some answers. Spend a few bucks and have your current duct system tested. Then you will know if it can handle the sizing the Manual J says you need. Play with HVAC Calc and see if insulating is cheaper than bigger units and upgrades. It all costs money. If you don't trust contractors, do the Manual J yourself. Most will not do it for free unless you are already signing up for a new system. Why should they? They have $4/gal gas to pay for, kids to send to school and bills to pay.

    BTW I'm a homeowner, not a pro. So according so some here, don't take my advice.

    -HF

  10. #75
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    11,847
    Quote Originally Posted by hangfirew8 View Post
    You are mistaken. A total fraud would take your money and disappear. This contractor, most likely, would take your money and give you a (non-optimal, oversized) system that would really cool your house. It would cost you more in electricity and not last as long as a properly sized system, but I bet it would work. I'm sure he has lots of satisfied customers who don't know better, and they would also contend with your characterization of fraud.

    His price was not out of range of sanity at all. Duct work is expensive. 5 ton units cost a lot more than 3 tons. Is this fraud? No. It's not not optimal service, that is all. Maybe your ducts really do need service. Unless you pay money to have flow, resistance, leak, etc etc tests done, YOU don't know. YOU are guessing.

    I don't know if you are a scientist or a mathematician, but I suspect the latter. You said your got several different answers, and you don't know which one was right. A mathematician looks for one right answer. If you were a scientist, you might realize that they might all be right!

    Remember the guy who said the leak was easy to find? Well, it is, if he has a leak detector and knows who to use it. Duct sizing? Duct leaks? Unit sizing? Insulation? Envelope leaks? Return placement? Every one of them may be part of the problem you have. There is no physical law that says some of these guys must be wrong.

    I'll tell you one thing straight up. If you complain about a 1991 Rheem system to another type of dealer, 99.99% of the time they will say "time for a new system." If you complain to a Rheem dealer, you have a small chance they might bother to try to fix it while saying "be prepared to buy a new system in a year or two."

    Why?

    Systems are only engineered to last 10 to 15 years. If you get a superb install and great maintenance, maybe a few more years. Customer satisfaction is not built by band-aiding old systems for new customers beyond their useful lifetime, especially when they never worked right. Every contractor that comes in and hears your litany of complaints thinks to himself, I'll put up with him if he drops several grand on a new system, otherwise I'll just blow him off.

    Unfortunately for you, you invested your time building good will with a contractor who was incompetent and unable to help you. You are also paying for new systems quotes from repair men instead of talking to salesmen for free. There are upsides and downsides to both approaches. You don't know who to trust. This is life.

    At some point you have to choose who to believe and what to do, repair, remediate, or upgrade. You want that decision to come to you on a silver platter. It won't. Why don't you start by spending a few bucks on the homeowner version of Manual-J, linked above as HVAC-Calc. Then you will have some answers. Spend a few bucks and have your current duct system tested. Then you will know if it can handle the sizing the Manual J says you need. Play with HVAC Calc and see if insulating is cheaper than bigger units and upgrades. It all costs money. If you don't trust contractors, do the Manual J yourself. Most will not do it for free unless you are already signing up for a new system. Why should they? They have $4/gal gas to pay for, kids to send to school and bills to pay.

    BTW I'm a homeowner, not a pro. So according so some here, don't take my advice.

    -HF
    You're a homeowner that gets it. Well stated.

  11. #76
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,923
    Sorry guys, but I really do think that krusty is a troll who is yanking our chains. This guy has an excuse for why every bit of advice he is given can't be done. He is another one who thinks that if you are from the north, you think you are better then Southerners and he just seems to have the most horrible knack of calling idiots for service.

    Additionally, his claimed profession would dictate that he be a lot more intelligent then he is coming off. Something is just not right with this one.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  12. #77
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Eastern PA
    Posts
    68,923
    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
    He did say he was a math guy...Maybe he doesn't have mozilla .....excuse me I mean Mozilla....
    For a claimed math guy, his postings certainly don't add up to much other then someone who has every excuse imaginable as to why he will never succede in having his HVAC properly repaired.

    If this guy is so untrusting of everyone in our trade in Mississsippi, then what does he think of us?

    Nah....this is a troll. Some lonely soul who is craving human reactions on the Internet.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  13. #78
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    11,847
    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post

    Nah....this is a troll. Some lonely soul who is craving human reactions on the Internet.
    Yep, I believe you're right.

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