2.5 Ton Trane XR14 VS Rheem RPNL
I have been reading the site for a while and searching for info on the various products and found lots of good into, but nothing that asks my exact question .
My 2.5 ton heat pump compressor has died and the whole system is really old (air handler is a GE maybe 25 years old and still going), so time to move on to something new and more efficient. My problem is I have limited places to install the outside unit so I probably need to put it back where the dead system sits. The second part of the problems is the liquid line is 5/16" and is run in between the two floors of the house - both finished with no access to replace the lines without tearing out the ceiling in the basement.. I got quotes from several contractors but almost all are high or not desirable due to the need to relocated the compressor and run new lines and power. However, both Trane and Rheem / Ruud make 2.5 ton 410a systems that can work fine with the 5/16" line. So unless I want to pay a lot to move it to a less desirable location those are my options. The prices for these two systems are very close.
Trane 2.5 ton XR13 + 4TEE handler w/ECM motor = 14 SEER "in theory" using 410a
Rheem 2.5 RPNL (13 SEER) + 3.0 ton RHLL handler w/X-13 motor = 15 SEER "in theory" using 410a
I can also get the 2.5 ton RPNL heat pump with the 3.0 ton RHKL handler and the ECM variable speed motor for about the same price, 14 SEER for that combo.
I think the warranty is the same for any of these and the cost is in the same ballpark - within a couple of hundred.
The Trane has the variable speed ECM motor but in the 2.5 ton sizes does not have the scroll compressor.
The Rheem has the X-13 very efficient motor, but it is single speed with no ramp up or stop delay settings. Copeland scroll compressor.
The Rheem handler with the ECM motor is less efficient (SEER rating) than the X-13 Rheem and the same as the Trane and has the ability to be run via a humidistat and has settings for slow or full speed when in this mode. The Trane may as well, but I can't find the install guide for the Trane online - you can find EVERYTHING online for Rheem, which is nice. Scroll compressor on this one too.
In the past I have run the fan all the time to help balance out the temps between the floors and the rooms, so part of me says the Rheem with the X-13 is the way to go. That said, I have never had a variable speed blower before or a humidistat so I do not know what I am missing? If I run the fan all the time with any of these systems I will save a good bit of juice based on the specs I could find.
The quotes as written do not include a humidistat on the ECM motor systems, but I am sure both contractors would be glad to add that to the quote and install it with the rest of the stuff. It may make the installed a good bit cost higher than getting the X-13 system depending on the price of the stat and the need to run a new t-stat to handler control cable.
So is the "big name" Trane brand worth getting even if no scroll compressor? The X-13 motor specs show it is more efficient than the ECM but is just a tap speed motor while the ECM does the constant air flow thing and the spool up and delay stop and either system SHOULD be made to work with a humidistat. Some folks have told me that the ECM motor is better (than a standard motor anyway) even without a humidity sensor since the ramp up and optional delay to stop along with the constant CFM are all pluses even without the run to dehumidify option.
I was also quoted a Trane XL14i with the same handler with a 14 SEER but it is a LOT more (25%) than the other systems but I don't see a lot of improvement over the other systems for the extra money.
I don't think any of the 3 is a wrong choice in the bunch given how much more efficient this will be over the old system and given my line size and placement limits.
Thoughts from the pros?
RUUUUUUUDDDDDDDDDD, in my opinion, trane is not worth the extra cost, the trane 14i is a very good unit, but I'd go with Ruud/Rheem....
And if you have the money definitely go with the variable speed... there's a lot of advantages... only disadvantage is that if it does go out in 15 years it will be more expensive to replace... good news is that you'll have saved enough in electricity to pay for it by then, especially if you are using the fan in the on position...
Which ever brand you choose. Get the VS blower.
Bryant heat pumps are air conditioners that can also heat your home
The rock-solid Bryant Evolution Series heat pump offers Bryant's highest efficiency performance and most comfort options, and our Preferred™ Series and Legacy™ Line products provide economical comfort. Remember, the higher the SEER and HSPF ratings, the more cost-savings you can realize. Plus, you can add a Bryant gas furnace and enjoy hybrid heating.
Looks like we got a true salesman on our hands here....
Originally Posted by sjesp
OP, get what you feel most comfortable with. All systems you have chosen are good systems. Each brand has its own corks and screws about them but so does anything else you will be getting...
Remember that you are buying the contractor and not the brand. Don't go with your low ball bids. Take your time, pick and choose carefully. I know it sucks being hot with no AC but its always best to take an extra day or two and get the best you can possibly buy....
And don't be afraid to ask plenty of questions. Thats why we are here. And make sure to post pics once it is done so we can critique the work performed.
I fully support the military and the War on Terrorism.
If you don't know, then don't do. If you don't know and still do, then be prepared to pay someone else a lot to undo what you did and then do it right.
If you do know, then do. But do it right. Otherwise, you may not be doing it long.
Originally Posted by beenthere
Ditto,plus a control system/stat that will dehumidify in cooling.
Look at heating too. A-S/Trane heat pumps tend to be lacking there. In this case, your HSPF with that pump and air handler is just above the minimum at 8.00. The Rheem HSPF is a nice 9.25 with either air handler. Also Rheem has high & low pressure switches monitored by a board that will lock out the system after 3 trips. That is great compressor protection. In the past, Trane has avoided using such protection though being 410, there might be some control.
Thanks for all the replies.
I could not find the Trane specs online, but had seen messages in forum searches about "weak" heat pump heating.
I am still not 100% sold on the need for the ECM motor, since the X-13 equipped Rheem would be more efficient to run in any case (always on or only on when heat or cool is commanded). I understand the ECM equipped system can be set up to run a lower speeds to remove humidity when cooling is not required, but if I end up running the blower full time to keep the whole house temps for more even then I will be using more current than if I had the X-13 motor and the replacement cost would be a lot higher. I DO like the idea of the constant air flow - set it to 1,000 cfm (or whatever) and adjusting register openings, forgetting to change the filters , etc should still result in 1,000 cfm. The x-13 motor just has 4 or 5 taps and you set it for the best choice but the resulting actual air flow may vary. Right?
In any case, lots for food for thought and I have to decide today.
i havent looked up the specific equipment your talking about but i will say that trane equipment is by far superior,..so my advice would be to spend the extra $$$ .
is this an air to air heat pump?
single phase or three phase? (if its residential its probably single)
what part of the country?
i will also mention that all the bells and whistles are the first thing to go wrong,..anytime you try to make one thing do everything it fails,...thats the problem with heat pumps in general,...they dont cool good and the dont heat good,....they do both ok (i guess),...(you would get better results with a conventional ac and a seperate heat source)
and no,..i am not a trane salesman..(like the bryant dude that posted earlier)
Far superior in what way. Explain.
Originally Posted by AAAA HVACR
The 13, and 14 SEER units are good, the 15 SEER is ok, The 16i, don't even go there.
Yea, that wimpy 8.00 HSPF of the Trane is far superior to the 9.25 of the Rheem
Originally Posted by AAAA HVACR
I can't find the Trane air handler model number in the AFI database.
The heat pump is XR13 2.5 Ton - 4TWR3030A1 which check outs, but the quote lists the handler as 4TEE3F31D1.
The only match with the 4TWR3030A1 is with the "4TEE3F31B1" .
Anything different between the "B" and "D" models besides one letter ?
1106402 Active Systems XR13 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR3030A1 4TEE3F31B1 31000 12.00 14.00 28600 8.00 15300 1 HRCU-A-CB 190 516