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  1. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Revin, since you are so fond of making the statement; "let me make this clear", while all the time being extremely unclear and continually changing the conditions of your home, let me make "this" clear; that 30 year veteran HVAC installer you are so fond of does not know what he is doing based on what you have posted here.

    Why in the hell are you arguing with all of us if you are so infactuated with the decisions and work process provided by the person who installed the mess you currently have?

    Just tell us what it is you expect from us! We have given you all kinds of very good advice and you have done nothing but argue with us and change the alleged conditions of your house. Again; what is it you want here?

    In my posititon as a manufacturer's troubleshooting rep (several brands represented) I have run into quite a few 30 year veterans of the HVAC trade who have been making the same mistakes for 30 years and never have the time to learn about new equipment and new processes.
    The first "Let me" was based on the fact that I have nothing to do with the install, ie DIY, which is stated in the rules as a no-no.

    The second was due to the issue about "picking" the cheapest/flunkies to do a HVAC install, when the information gave to me about his "experience" and with his other clients was all good, compared to the other guy, that has far less, and didn't make me feel good about his answers.

    I'm not clear about what I said about "changing" the conditions of the house, and I'm not meaning to fight, but crap look at how much info has been thrown at me, how do I interpret it??

    My concern is trying to understand what is going to be done first off, and how to understand if it is being done correctly?

    I now think that it's clear to me there is a major duct issue, and that was made very evident tonight!!!!

    It sucking the hot water fumes back into the house!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So to add salt to the wound, is now finding a duct work installer that will do it correctly, is it someone with many yrs of the trade or what?

    Or do we let this installer do what he wants to have done, so that it's all from the same source?

    I do know 1 thing for sure, my wife wants in writing that any more work done will result in a cooler upstairs, and setup so it dont keep getting hotter every evening.

    We have really been going at it with each other because we didn't insist on a 4 ton unit, but i been trying to explain all the info that is thrown at me about airspeed, pressure ect..... hell I dont know, just want a system to work.

    So there we are back to the issue that I dont know what to expect to be done and in what order now???????????

    I am truly sorry if I have been confusing, but you gotta think about how I'm trying to deal with the entire situation{hi honey] ya know what I mean

  2. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    What's the name of the Goodman rep. You are in Missouri right? If this is a rep actually working for Goodman and not someone working out of a local supply house, I may know him.
    I screwed up again, I should have said it this way,

    "There's supposed to be a Rep with him Monday" as I explained to the lady on the phone that is when he's going to come back, and shed have it setup or whatever they do

    I do not know because I initiated it with Goodman this afternoon, and they contacted the installer direct.

    She told me it was Policy to have a tech when the owner complained to them.

    I could tell when I called him last hr. about the fumes, he was a little uneasy, but he did advise me to remove the tape from the joist for now, and the'll deal with it Mon.

    That's where he said "bingo" that where the moisture is coming from, and said that the house wont pass enough air thru the vent's creating a negitive air pressure.[now my wife understands a little better]

    So will they buddy up on the installers side, or give it to me straight about what needs to be done and How its to be done?

    EDIT: BTW I'll contact Goodman and see if the can tell me who it will be, so hopefully it's the real mcoy!!!
    EDIT:#2 <My wife said theres no way in hell there gonna tear this apart and us do with ac while it's hot out!!

    Now what do I do................................................ ....................
    Last edited by revin; 07-01-2008 at 11:41 PM. Reason: I screwed up again, I should have said it this way

  3. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by revin View Post
    I do know 1 thing for sure, my wife wants in writing that any more work done will result in a cooler upstairs, and setup so it dont keep getting hotter every evening.
    Thing that scared her lastnite was his sayin "all the air is being pushed upstairs", when infact. it stays kinda hot ya know, so that's what freaked her out.

    Thats why it's hard to interpert what he means about "reduceing" the duct that feed's up there ect.......velocity stuff

  4. #56
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    Aug 2007
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    MN
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    So the venting for your waterheater is going into your return duct?

    Or the stink pipe vent?

    Couldn't understand what you meant by hot water fumes.

    Sounds to me like you have an uninsulated supply duct system in an unconditioned crawl. Gotta digital cam to take some pics?
    You can't fix stupid

  5. #57
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    MN
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    Quote Originally Posted by revin View Post
    Thing that scared her lastnite was his sayin "all the air is being pushed upstairs", when infact. it stays kinda hot ya know, so that's what freaked her out.

    Thats why it's hard to interpert what he means about "reduceing" the duct that feed's up there ect.......velocity stuff
    by not reducing the duct there is no back pressure so the end of the run would have less velocity, less flow to the registers on the end of that trunkline. you have some issues with airflow that need to be addressed, unit is oversized if anything, you can put in a 5 ton and it will not cool any better than the one you have now. An HVAC system is more than what comes in the big box, EVERYTHING factors into a proper system.
    You can't fix stupid

  6. #58
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    Nov 2000
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    Eastern PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by revin View Post
    I do not know because I initiated it with Goodman this afternoon, and they contacted the installer direct.

    She told me it was Policy to have a tech when the owner complained to them.

    I could tell when I called him last hr. about the fumes, he was a little uneasy, but he did advise me to remove the tape from the joist for now, and the'll deal with it Mon.

    That's where he said "bingo" that where the moisture is coming from, and said that the house wont pass enough air thru the vent's creating a negitive air pressure.[now my wife understands a little better]

    So will they buddy up on the installers side, or give it to me straight about what needs to be done and How its to be done?

    EDIT: BTW I'll contact Goodman and see if the can tell me who it will be, so hopefully it's the real mcoy!!!
    EDIT:#2 <My wife said theres no way in hell there gonna tear this apart and us do with ac while it's hot out!!

    Now what do I do................................................ ....................
    It sounds like you are communicating with Goodman's Consumer Affairs department, which I worked hand in hand with for nearly a decade. A manufacturer's technical rep should always be working with a contractor as that rep is not allowed to do the work himself. Again, I know, this is what I did for many years.

    Do you have the name of the person at Goodman you are dealing with?
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  7. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmajerus View Post
    by not reducing the duct there is no back pressure so the end of the run would have less velocity, less flow to the registers on the end of that trunkline. you have some issues with airflow that need to be addressed, unit is oversized if anything, you can put in a 5 ton and it will not cool any better than the one you have now. An HVAC system is more than what comes in the big box, EVERYTHING factors into a proper system.
    The ducting is most likely designed as an "extended plenum" type of duct system which is where the trunk duct simply fills up with air and then "leaks" out of the branch ducts. This is the most common type of duct system used today. Reducing the size of the ducting really has very little affect on the operation of the air in this system design. Reduction in the ducting is mostly saving the cost of installing larger then necessary ducting.

    Older residential duct systems and most commercial engineered duct systems, especially when over 100' of ducting from plenum to outlet(s) are of a "graduating plenum" design in which the trunk ducting reduces in size after each branch take off. Dampers in this type of system are more crucial in that the velocity of the air in this type of ducting is more constant throughout the duct system whereas with an extended plenum type of duct system has a higher velocity of air in the trunk ducting then in the branch ducting.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  8. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmajerus View Post
    So the venting for your waterheater is going into your return duct?

    Or the stink pipe vent?

    Couldn't understand what you meant by hot water fumes.

    Sounds to me like you have an uninsulated supply duct system in an unconditioned crawl. Gotta digital cam to take some pics?
    The extra pull of air into the return vent was increased so much by sealing off those 24 sq. in. of space, that it started sucking air from the "outside" of the house in, which was from the hotwater flue, and the fireplace chimmney.

  9. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by revin View Post
    The extra pull of air into the return vent was increased so much by sealing off those 24 sq. in. of space, that it started sucking air from the "outside" of the house in, which was from the hotwater flue, and the fireplace chimmney.
    You are really lucky that you and your family have only been uncomfortable and not dead.
    Government is a disease...
    ...masquerading as its own cure…
    Ecclesiastes 10:2 NIV


  10. #62
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    Aug 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by revin View Post
    The extra pull of air into the return vent was increased so much by sealing off those 24 sq. in. of space, that it started sucking air from the "outside" of the house in, which was from the hotwater flue, and the fireplace chimmney.
    as Robo stated, your lucky to be here, Hope your contractor takes the advice of the Goodman rep, you have some major issues there, 1 there is not enough fresh air intake, and 2 your duct system needs some major TLC.
    You can't fix stupid

  11. #63
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    Aug 2007
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    MN
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    One thing to suggest is to turn up your water heater tstat and put your hand by the top of the heater by the venting and if it is still spilling out heat, shut it down! CO will kill just as fast in the summer as in the winter!
    You can't fix stupid

  12. #64
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    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
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    11,338
    Quote Originally Posted by revin View Post
    The extra pull of air into the return vent was increased so much by sealing off those 24 sq. in. of space, that it started sucking air from the "outside" of the house in, which was from the hotwater flue, and the fireplace chimmney.
    If you have a gas burning appliance back drafting, and the fireplace chimney backdrafting, you have a serious duct leakage problem. I can't make much sense out these last few posts, but it sounds like you taped up a leak on the return side down below, making the return in the house draw considerably more, which caused a gas burning appliance and a fireplace chimney to backdraft. That is a SERIOUS problem!!

    Your guy should have NOT told you to remove the tape, but should have told you to shut everything down and then rushed right over to find the problem...does he want a dead customer??

  13. #65
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    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    It sounds like you are communicating with Goodman's Consumer Affairs department,
    Do you have the name of the person at Goodman you are dealing with?
    Yes that it!.
    No dont know, it was 2 differant ladys 1 Fri and another today, and she was actually typing all the notes in as we spoke, and said she get it set up and going.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoBoTeq View Post
    Let's get the equipment information as soon as possible. No other data until we get the equipment information, please.
    Now about the part numbers, what do you see here in you're mind as to what is going or should to happen next?

    About the ducting, Gotta hand it to ya RoBoTeq, you snapped this picture real good! it indeed sound's like extended plenum.

    Off the coil box is the "mixing chamber[?]" which is 22w18 tall and 35 long.
    On the butt or LOS flow end is a 20x8 attached about 2" from the top,[On that same "trunk" is 2 6" that are attached 1to the side and 1 to the top], that runs about 6ft then has a flat 90 that reduces to the 16x8 it runs aprox 10-12ft where it ends up at the upturn 90* to feed the upstairs. it hase more 6" attached that are within 3ft of that upturn.

    Now back to the "mixing box, on the right side there is 1 16x8 trunk that travels 16.5ft then stops. I think it has 5 6", but have to recheck if needed.

    Another 2cents, 1 of the ducts on that first trunk is not hooked up to the reg, because it was [flex] broke and I didnt have enough pipe to repair it.

    So this is where i'm stuck, do I need major changes to this duct, like he said to have all those reductions ect, or is there a way that this can be made to work without great expence?

    When Goodman asked me for the second evaluation, he said thet there is "plenty" of air coming out of the registers, and didnt feel that we need "rip it all out" and redo it.

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