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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,321
    According to several manufacturers of equipment, the problem arises on mixing of the oils. They claim the oils if mixed wil cause a tar like substance to form inside the piping. this can clog your expansion device, filter drier, etc. If the piping is reused it should be flushed with the rx11 flush kit to remove as much resdiual oil as possible. If the pipinfg is okay, it is then safe to reuse if necessary, but always better to change it if possible.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    41
    LOL, gary. Any tips on proper phrasing so it becomes more of a question on his company's practice and less like me questioning his professional abilities/ethics? Last thing I want to do is cheese off the guy restoring AC to the house; I would bet that post install tomorrow afternoon my wife will hold him in higher regard than she does me.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
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    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by Llama View Post
    LOL, gary. Any tips on proper phrasing so it becomes more of a question on his company's practice and less like me questioning his professional abilities/ethics?

    Option 1:
    "Here is a cold Snapple Iced Tea. By the way, I've read where re-used R22 refrigerant lines have to be thoroughly cleaned before using the new 410 refrigerant. Is there a special cleaning solution that you run through the lines?"

    Option 2:
    "Before I give you this cold Snapple Iced Tea, can you tell me how you clean the refrigerant lines for the new 410 refrigerant?"

    Option 3:
    "My wife says she'll kick my a$$ if I don't ask this question: How do you clean the old refrigerant lines for the new 410 refrigerant?"

    Seriously, you should consider a 10 year parts and labor warranty to cover yourself in case of issues from re-using the old lines.

    Best to you.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    41
    Thanks Gary, sounds like it might also be worth the option to get a price for the warranty extension vs pulling in a new line set.

    Looks like I will be off to the store for some deliciously cold Snapple iced tea. I guess this is the beverage of choice for on the job installer technicians?

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
    Posts
    5,058

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Llama View Post
    Thanks Gary, sounds like it might also be worth the option to get a price for the warranty extension vs pulling in a new line set.

    Looks like I will be off to the store for some deliciously cold Snapple iced tea. I guess this is the beverage of choice for on the job installer technicians?
    What makes you think that using the old line set and having a failure would be the manufacture's warranty obligation to you for a decision that you made?:

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by second opinion View Post
    What makes you think that using the old line set and having a failure would be the manufacture's warranty obligation to you for a decision that you made?:
    In the least, it should cover the homeowner for the labor charge for a part that failed in the extended warranty period due to inadequate cleaning of the lines. The replacement part itself should be covered by the installer if there is no mfg defect.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    41
    Quote Originally Posted by second opinion View Post
    What makes you think that using the old line set and having a failure would be the manufacture's warranty obligation to you for a decision that you made?:
    Not sure what you're referring to, but I appreciate the helpful nature of your post.

    I know nothing about HVAC, much less R22->410a line contamination issues. The proposal specifically says that they plan on using the existing line set, which sounded perfectly fine to me as a layperson until I read this thread ~4 hours ago.

    My thought was if the contractor is fine using the existing set (and following their flush guidelines (if any)) then I appear to have three choices:

    1. Accept their guidelines as acceptable and be done with it.
    2. Accept their guidelines as acceptable to them, but pay for additional warranty to make it acceptable risk to me.
    3. Determine that their guidelines are unacceptable and pay for a new line set.

    Without knowing the prices between 2 and 3 I cannot assess the risk vs ROI on the decision.

    As for whether or not an extended parts/labor warranty is the appropriate solution for reducing my exposure as a homeowner to an installer's usage policy; I have no idea, but made sense when posited by gary.

    What is your suggestion?

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,753
    Quote Originally Posted by gary_g View Post
    In the least, it should cover the homeowner for the labor charge for a part that failed in the extended warranty period due to inadequate cleaning of the lines. The replacement part itself should be covered by the installer if there is no mfg defect.
    No.
    It does not cover and parts or labor for improper installation, use or neglect.

    If the manufacturers instructions say the line set muxt be changed, and they are not. It voids warranty.

    Same as a new cars motor is not covered under warranty if you drive it with only water in the rad, and the block freezes.

    Read the warranty..
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    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The Twilight Zone
    Posts
    2,964
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    No.
    It does not cover and parts or labor for improper installation, use or neglect.

    If the manufacturers instructions say the line set muxt be changed, and they are not. It voids warranty.

    Same as a new cars motor is not covered under warranty if you drive it with only water in the rad, and the block freezes.

    Read the warranty..
    So the installer is not accountable at all to the customer if there is a problem caused by the installation? I understand that the mfr is not accountable.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,753
    Quote Originally Posted by gary_g View Post
    So the installer is not accountable at all to the customer if there is a problem caused by the installation? I understand that the mfr is not accountable.
    I didn't see the part were you said by installer.
    Just the part about the cover labor, and since the post you quoted said manufacturer. thats the part I answered.
    Contractor locator map

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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  11. #24
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    maryland, baltimore
    Posts
    135
    In the long run, if there is any way to run a new line set you will be better off. With higher operating pressures, old marginal joints may leak. The possibility of a trap in the line holding mineral oil that will eventualy make it back to the compressor. Then the moisture absorbing nature of ester oil alone should be reason enough.
    The cheapest guy in town won't be using $150 can of flush. Pay extra for new copper. Once the system is contaminated there is no putting the genie back in her bottle.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,753
    Edit out your pricing.
    No prices of systems, labor or parts allowed.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Office and warehouse in both Crystal River & New Port Richey ,FL
    Posts
    18,836
    We have installed a great number of Puron/R410a systems,we see TXV "tar" failures in new construcion and replacement ,new copper in RNC ,and old copper reused in replacement.

    We have sold these systems since the late 1990,s,and never noticed a TXv issue until 2006 when so many manufacturers went with TXV's for the 13 SER minimum.

    I wish some one would determine what the "tar" like substance is caused by.If we only found it in RNC or replacements ,I agree that it could be the copper/mineral oil,but that's not the case.

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